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(by the way, I'm posting this here rather than on the 'Religion' site as I think this is something everyone of any--or no--religion might relate to)
This site is often filled with complaints, fears, and badly-disguised jabs regarding the "Mormons." Just thought I'd give those of you who fear or distrust members of the LDS Church something to think about:
First, a little background: Nauvoo, Ill. was the final settlement of the Church in the East and it's the place where Joseph Smith was taken from to be killed, and then the inhabitants were basically driven out at gunpoint in the dead of winter to start their long trek to the West. The Church has re-built the Nauvoo, Ill. Temple and has 'enactors,' etc., at the restored homes and shops--and visitors flock to the place. I know someone who is serving a mission at the Nauvoo, Ill Temple site. Today I received an e-mail from that individual, and within it was this news of what's happened there in just the past week:
"Someone burned down one of the log cabins where people get on horse-drawn wagons for the guided tours around the historic sites. Someone hit one of our young missionaries--who has cerebral palsy--and was riding along the side of the road in his wheelchair. He was strapped into the chair, of course, and he went over onto his face. The car didn't stop, a hit-and-run! He may have a broken leg [and lucky it wasn't far worse]. Someone painted anit-Mormon slogans on a tourist's car parked at a motel in town. I'd call these "hate crimes," but, as my companion said, "if it had happened to most minorities or other religions the FBI would have been here in a flash, but since it concerns Mormons they probably won't make much of it---and it isn't going to even be on the nightly news."
It does seem that some of you think it's okay to make comments and innuendos regarding the Mormons that you would never make regarding minorities or other religions? Perhaps you might want to rethink that type of thinking which often spirals into the cesspool of hate? Or maybe not!
Last edited by LlasaLost; 07-04-2007 at 09:04 PM..
(by the way, I'm posting this here rather than on the 'Religion' site as I think this is something everyone of any--or no--religion might relate to)
This site is often filled with complaints, fears, and badly-disguised jabs regarding the "Mormons." Just thought I'd give those of you who fear or distrust members of the LDS Church something to think about...
It does seem that some of you think it's okay to make comments and innuendos regarding the Mormons that you would never make regarding minorities or other religions? Perhaps you might want to rethink that type of thinking which often spirals into the cesspool of hate? Or maybe not!
I appreciate your post. I think that it is very sad and terrible that people attacked the Mormons as was described in the article.
I do not think the reason the Mormons were attacked was because they were feared or misunderstood. I think there are just those out in the world who are hateful and vicious. They don't need a reason to attack, just a chance to do so. If law enforcement isn't interested in stopping it, then they will be emboldened to continue it. Very, very sad and upsetting.
I hope you can explain some things to me, because I personally do fear Mormons, and I'll tell you why: I fear that if they are in a position to do so, Mormons would treat me unfairly, because our beliefs differ wildly. I am a person who just wants to be able to live a quiet life as I like. If I want to have pink hair, so be it. If my son is wearing dreadlocks, so be it. If my husband doesn't attend any church, so be it. If I want to decorate my house with 50 jack o'lanterns for Halloween, so be it...my fear is, MORMONS MIGHT NOT LET ME AND MINE ALONE.
I fell in love with Utah while driving across the state corner to corner north to south. FELL IN LOVE HARD. My eyes were bugged out my head with all the beauty and weird landscapes. But I fear trying to relocate there. Help me know if it's reasonable.
I don't mind if people think differently, politics-wise, religion-wise, etc. That is their business. I just want to know: Will Mormons let others go about their business, or will it be a case of not waiting on non-LDS, getting the cold shoulder, getting pushed to the end of the line, getting ignored instead of waited on, etc. which I have experienced before when I was living in New Orleans and was the only white face in a place many times.
I'm always polite to the Missionaries we get here. Others slam the door in their face rudely, or swerve at them or catcall them, and it is DISGUSTING of them. Live and let live, why be rude because they want to share their faith?
Hoping you can shed some light on whether live-and-let-live is cool among the Mormons.
People are people no matter their religion. I'm Mormon, and my hair often ends up sort of pink. I'm a bottled red head (true blonde in denial). I have three himilayan cats, who right now since I was gone for three weeks, are sporting dreadlocks. Hubby would if he had enough hair. My son is at an age where he doesn't want any religion in his life. I'd help you carve the pumpkins, and have you help me with another holiday for decorations. The more the merrier. I have friends that drop in from all over the world. I buy them Wine or whatever they prefer. They know I don't drink, but I don't put my values on them. I do not get in peoples face about my religion either. If someone wants to know, they will ask. If you don't mind that my house is often a disater area. You don't mind that forget to get my garbage can up to the house for a couple of days after trash day. I have a garage that is an artists studio, so the cars are parked outside. I travel too much. If you were friendly, I'd grab you and take you off on a hiking adventure into the back country. Most can't keep up with me. So If I don't bug you, You definately and your family would not bug me. I can't speak for anyone else, because we are all different. You have fat heads everywhere, and good people as well.
Dear Ghost---I will try to answer your concerns (although I probably should do this through a private message rather than the board):
First off--and I mean no offense--the mere fact that you assume that you might be ignored, pushed aside, not waited on, etc., indicates that you've already bought into the idea that "Mormons" hate/shun/dislike anyone who isn't a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and therefore you fear them---even without knowing them! If you've never lived around them, then were is this fear coming from? If not from personal experience then perhaps from the things others have told you??
"Mormons" are people, for heaven's sake! Some of them are good; some of them are adequate; some of them are ding-dongs; some of them are outstanding examples of the best that people can be! Because of this variety you most likely will experience various interactions with them---but that is true of all peoples everywhere in the world, isn't it?
Most members of the Church do believe that they have something wonderful in the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ--and are often anxious to share it with others, sort of like someone who has found something of great beauty who wishes to share it with those he cares about. Thus, when in Utah (and in other areas also) you may find, not only missionaries, but your neighbors/friends wanting to share their faith with you. If you're not at all interested (or even curious), you can just say, "thanks, but no thanks," and most will honor your request and will continue to be friendly.
Mormons have a real history of persecution and hatred toward them and their beliefs, and this continues to this day, so they tend, on the whole, to be a little wary while at the same time laid back in their acceptance of others. However, if one comes into the area and spews hatred, ignorance, and prejudice, or leads an openly immoral life that person may not be welcomed with open arms---but, under those circumstances, where would such a one be welcomed?
Utah is filled with a variety of individuals---LDS and otherwise, and has a population that is rich and diverse---in spite of what some on this board would try to make you believe. There has also been, since the first pioneers came into the valley, a rich cultural and educational heritage, which continues to this day.
Also, as a direct result of the Church's missionary system, I doubt you could go anywhere in the world and find a greater % of individuals who have lived in so many other countries and speak as many of the world's languages as you will find in Utah--and I'm talking here from Mongolia to France to Finland to Ghana to Costa Rica to Russia to etc., etc., etc. True, a few Utahns live a sheltered, zenophobic life, but most do not!
Will you run into people who themselves are mean, or prejudiced, or ignorant, or pushy? Or have children that might hurt your child's feelings? Chances are, you might. But then, again, is there any place you could go in the world that you wouldn't also run into these types? And if you are unfortunate enough to run into one of the above types in Utah, are you going to then decide that everyone in Utah is an ignoramus (as some on the board do over and over again), or will you just realize that that particular person is not worth stewing over and go on with your life?
Just don't come to Utah expecting "Mormons" to either walk-on-water or be the worst people on earth, as, either way, you'll be in for a big surprise! And just to keep the record straight: everyone in Utah is not a "Mormon," so don't jump to the conclusion when you see or hear something about/from an individual that you are witnessing a "Mormon" in action!
As has been said many times, we usually find what we are looking for; we usually get what we expect. So, if you come with an open mind and heart and accept people for what they are, giving friendship for friendship, smile for smile, you just might find that you fit right into Utah.
If you look at the Mississippi and Alabama forums, you will see questions asking if liberals, or non-religious people, or white people or black people will be welcome, If you look at the Hawaii forum, you will see questions asking how mainlanders are treated. I think it is human nature to wonder, when moving into an area with a dominant culture to which one doesn't belong, to ask both how one will be accepted by that culture and how accepting one will be of that culture. Utah and Mormons are not unique in this respect.
Do Mormonism and the Mormon church affect the culture of Utah? Resoundingly, yes. Utah's liquor laws, for example, have definitely been affected by Mormonism. In the 1990s, when KSL-TV (owned by Bonneville International, which is owned by the church) switched from being a CBS affiliate to an NBC affiliate, they refused to broadcast Saturday Night Live. (If I remember correctly, the old NBC station (now CBS) continued to air SNL.) The Mormon church owns quite a bit of land in downtown SLC, and because of that affects certain city planning issues.
Will Mormons or Mormonism bother someone, as a non-Mormon living in Utah? It depends on where you live and your feelings towards proselytizing. Some areas in Utah are more Mormon than others, but even in Mormon neighborhoods, it is possible to have neighbors who aren't out to convert you, who will welcome you to participate in a neighborhood book group, who will welcome your kids over to play.
Are Mormon teens taught to date only Mormons? Often, yes. I certainly was. (And I didn't even grow up in Utah.) If you are planning to raise non-Mormon teens in Utah, that might give you pause.
Do Mormons abstain from certain behaviors that are not frowned upon in the rest of America? Yes. I was taught God didn't want me to drink coffee, tea, or alcohol, or even soft drinks with caffeine. Mormon adults who have been through the temple wear underwear that prevents them from wearing sleeveless shirts or most shorts, and some kids are not allowed to wear sleevelss shirts or short-shorts either. (I wasn't.)
Can this lead to kids and adults coming to feel that those who drink coffee or wear tank tops are "bad"? Yes, it can. My husband as a child once knocked a cigarette out of his coach's mouth. My friend's daughter came home from Just Say No week at school believing that coffee was a drug on the level of pot or speed. After 8 years in Utah, I realized that even as an adult I was coming to view the world as "us" versus "them"--thinking poorly of those who dressed differently than I did or drank different beverages--and we moved out of Utah in part to fight that tendency. My husband's neice, after hearing us pray, asked if we learned that prayer at "the bad church." Now, she was a child, but my SIL didn't correct her or apologize. (She probably would have apologized if we had not been family, but my neice's comment reflects my SIL's view of other churches.)
Do all Mormons have that tendency? No. Is it uncommon among Mormons? I don't think so.
Of course, I was living in Utah Valley, which is especially Mormon.
Now, for the proselytizing. I detest telemarketers and door-to-door salesmen, although my initial "Not interested, thank you" is polite. (If people keep talking or try to get me to change my mind, then I hang up or close the door, but I don't slam the phone or the door.) I can see myself getting very irritated if the missionaries or the bishopbric or the young men collecting fast offerings ignored my No Solicitors sign. I don't think it is proper for adults to invite kids to church without first talking to their parents.
Just so you understand where I am coming from: raised Mormon outside Utah, moved to Utah to go to school and lived there for about 8 years, left Utah for New England, faithful Mormon until I was 30, now an ex-Mormon. My husband and I continue to talk about moving back to Utah because all of his family is there and our best friends are as well. I've been back and forth many times on whether it would "work" for me to live in Utah as an ex-Mormon.
Lhasolost, you maybe have a bee in your bonnet, jumping to accuse me of maybe some bad things:
"However, if one comes into the area and spews hatred, ignorance, and prejudice, or leads an openly immoral life that person may not be welcomed with open arms---but, under those circumstances, where would such a one be welcomed?"
You show you miss my point: "Leads an openly immoral life" gives you away...openly immoral meaning what? Drinking coffee? Wearing a tank top? Immoral in WHOSE eyes? Yours, based on YOUR faith? I said NOTHING in my original post to make you jump to saying stuff about "openly immoral" lives...YOU brought that to the table. It's exactly what people fear about Mormons, thank you for illustrating it. What set you off? The pink hair?
I never indicated I would come into Utah and "spew hatred etc". I have respect for those who live in an area before me, even though "it's a free country" as they say. I think respect ought to be given to those who settled an area. They were there first. This applies to all areas, not just Utah. I can't stand it when people come into an area and start criticizing and changing it, pushing THEIR way onto the other people. It's what I'm talking about. Everyone leave everyone alone.
Every Mormon I've ever met, with the exception of the young Missionaries, has made a point to be judgmental about my family. I didn't know if this was just bad luck or something due to the culture. The Mormons around here won't let their kids play with non-LDS kids. I didn't know if this was because of a fear or because of a judgment against non-LDS. The neighborhood kids have told my son that he's "bad" because he drinks Starbucks. Well, he's not thrifty, that's for sure, but "bad" due to caffeine? Seems nasty-natured to me to look down your nose because people have a different way. Or is that one of the "openly immoral" things?
To MomtoFour, you had a very heartfelt and kind post. I appreciate it. It's live and let live. I hope you find peace about whether to move back to beautiful Utah or not. It's their loss not to have you. Your post was really enlightening and I thank you alot for it.
Mormons are welcome in my neighborhood. Anyone is, with basic decency. But I don't think non-LDS seem to be too welcome to LDS. I don't drink, smoke, take drugs, etc. I rescue animals, volunteer, keep a nice yard, share with others. But that isn't good enough for some.
Lhasolost, you maybe have a bee in your bonnet, jumping to accuse me of maybe some bad things:
"However, if one comes into the area and spews hatred, ignorance, and prejudice, or leads an openly immoral life that person may not be welcomed with open arms---but, under those circumstances, where would such a one be welcomed?"
You show you miss my point: "Leads an openly immoral life" gives you away...openly immoral meaning what? Drinking coffee? Wearing a tank top? Immoral in WHOSE eyes? Yours, based on YOUR faith? I said NOTHING in my original post to make you jump to saying stuff about "openly immoral" lives...YOU brought that to the table. It's exactly what people fear about Mormons, thank you for illustrating it. What set you off? The pink hair?
I never indicated I would come into Utah and "spew hatred etc". I have respect for those who live in an area before me, even though "it's a free country" as they say. I think respect ought to be given to those who settled an area. They were there first. This applies to all areas, not just Utah. I can't stand it when people come into an area and start criticizing and changing it, pushing THEIR way onto the other people. It's what I'm talking about. Everyone leave everyone alone.
Every Mormon I've ever met, with the exception of the young Missionaries, has made a point to be judgmental about my family. I didn't know if this was just bad luck or something due to the culture. The Mormons around here won't let their kids play with non-LDS kids. I didn't know if this was because of a fear or because of a judgment against non-LDS. The neighborhood kids have told my son that he's "bad" because he drinks Starbucks. Well, he's not thrifty, that's for sure, but "bad" due to caffeine? Seems nasty-natured to me to look down your nose because people have a different way. Or is that one of the "openly immoral" things?
To MomtoFour, you had a very heartfelt and kind post. I appreciate it. It's live and let live. I hope you find peace about whether to move back to beautiful Utah or not. It's their loss not to have you. Your post was really enlightening and I thank you alot for it.
Mormons are welcome in my neighborhood. Anyone is, with basic decency. But I don't think non-LDS seem to be too welcome to LDS. I don't drink, smoke, take drugs, etc. I rescue animals, volunteer, keep a nice yard, share with others. But that isn't good enough for some.
Ghost, it seems clear you missed Llasa's point entirely. She said nothing about you at all; she was talking about some people in general. Next, since you don't understand what she meant by immoral, let me explain.
Llasa did not mean morality in the religious sense, but there are expectations of morality in the social sense, and the primary moral expectation is that we will not infringe on the rights and peace of others. As long as what you do only affects you, then there is no problem.
Lastly, regardless of what you do, some folks just may not like you.
Ghost---I guess you're right? I evidently did miss your point as my comment, "leads an openly immoral life" was so offensive to you you promptly responded with: "Mormons are welcome in my neighborhood. Anyone is, with basic decency..." So, which standard of judgement should we use, an 'immoral life,' or 'basic decency'--especially since both terms have the same intrinsic meaning? And of course there's not a snowballs-chance-in-hell is there that you deliberately mis-construed every point I was making?
Oh, and ghost, don't I know you from previous posts? Your classic technique of the kindly, inquiring initial post indicating little contact with the LDS, followed up by the secondary, aggressive, 'you've-just-proven-how-horrible- Mormons-are-and-I-know-because-I-live-around-them' comments seems more than a little familiar!
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Drinking coffee? Wearing a tank top? Immoral in WHOSE eyes? Yours, based on YOUR faith? I said NOTHING in my original post to make you jump to saying stuff about "openly immoral" lives...YOU brought that to the table. It's exactly what people fear about Mormons, thank you for illustrating it. What set you off? The pink hair? 
