"zion wall" stupidity (theater, private school, costs)

[BuckeyezRule]

I love Utah, but, for such a 'red' state, we seem to want/pass/hope for/talk about, alot of gov't involvement on issues, that, really, as thinking adults, we can handle on our own. I saw my Dad drink beer every Sat w/ our pizza after church. I also saw him drink 2 nights a week in our basement when I came down there. No big deal. He's an adult, he can do that. My own kids have also saw hubby & I have a drink, or have seen a bar at a restaurant.
My kids also love horror, ie R rated films, & have watched them. They are happy & well adjusted. My own Mom shielded me from alot, & hubby laughs all the time on things I never experienced because of my Mom's overprotectiveness. lol

Just what I said earlier, parent your kids, don't expect the gov't to do it for you. If others don't parent like you do, DEAL w/ it. lol I'm in the middle. Not as right as some, not as left as others. =)

Novel, just my thoughts. =)

[irman]

Originally Posted by BuckeyezRule

parent your kids, don't expect the gov't to do it for you. If others don't parent like you do, DEAL w/ it.

There you have it, how much simpler can it be said !!!

[stycotl]

Originally Posted by BuckeyezRule

Just what I said earlier, parent your kids, don't expect the gov't to do it for you. If others don't parent like you do, DEAL w/ it. lol I'm in the middle. Not as right as some, not as left as others. =)

Novel, just my thoughts. =)

Originally Posted by irman

There you have it, how much simpler can it be said !!!

very well put. you succinctly put in a few lines what i tried in a 10-page essay.

[everwonder]

Thanks so much more this thread. The "Zion Curtain" nonsense deeply angered me and how DABC is allowed to conduct their business behind closed doors.

I'm so glad that many LDS people chimed in this thread agreeing with the lunacy of this law. I felt incredibly discouraged, thinking that since many people don't drink, they'll just allow this type of legislation to continue because it doesn't directly effect them. The truth is IT DOES effect you, because it kills local business and tourism. What someone said about Vail, compared to Utah resorts is completely accurate.

I also find it deeply offensive when locals repeatedly pontificate "if you don't like it, LEAVE". We live and pay taxes here, too ; it's ridiculous to run out people who may think different or believe different than you. How anti-American and anti-freedom. If your beliefs or behavior are so easily influenced by other peoples personal choices, the problem resides with you. It directly contradicts the premise of "free agency". Makes me wonder how do these "Zion Curtain" supporters deal when leaving Utah? I mean, have they ever been on cruise, where there's typically people drinking constantly? Do they watch TV where people crack open beer or drink wine with dinner? Or do they ban those shows too?

Sheltering your children from viewing different beliefs or ways of life (which are perfectly legal and moral) denies them the opportunity to develop critically thinking skills and isn't that a big part of parenting?

[BuckeyezRule]

Originally Posted by everwonder

Thanks so much more this thread. The "Zion Curtain" nonsense deeply angered me and how DABC is allowed to conduct their business behind closed doors.

I'm so glad that many LDS people chimed in this thread agreeing with the lunacy of this law. I felt incredibly discouraged, thinking that since many people don't drink, they'll just allow this type of legislation to continue because it doesn't directly effect them. The truth is IT DOES effect you, because it kills local business and tourism. What someone said about Vail, compared to Utah resorts is completely accurate.

I also find it deeply offensive when locals repeatedly pontificate "if you don't like it, LEAVE". We live and pay taxes here, too ; it's ridiculous to run out people who may think different or believe different than you. How anti-American and anti-freedom. If your beliefs or behavior are so easily influenced by other peoples personal choices, the problem resides with you. It directly contradicts the premise of "free agency". Makes me wonder how do these "Zion Curtain" supporters deal when leaving Utah? I mean, have they ever been on cruise, where there's typically people drinking constantly? Do they watch TV where people crack open beer or drink wine with dinner? Or do they ban those shows too?

Sheltering your children from viewing different beliefs or ways of life (which are perfectly legal and moral) denies them the opportunity to develop critically thinking skills and isn't that a big part of parenting?

ITA. My devout Catholic Mom is wonderful & fantastic, but, to be blunt, lucky that my sis & I turned out as great as we did w/ her bold sheltering. lol My bff from Ohio & I, as well as my sis had many friends who 'revoulted'.

Hubby & I don't shelter our kids from just about anything. We discuss it all w/ them. =) That's just us. We instill respect & honesty, & live it too, to teach our kids we do what we say. Again, just us. =)

They still believe in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, & the Tooth Fairy. =)

[markg91359]

I love Utah, but, for such a 'red' state, we seem to want/pass/hope for/talk about, alot of gov't involvement on issues, that, really, as thinking adults, we can handle on our own. I saw my Dad drink beer every Sat w/ our pizza after church. I also saw him drink 2 nights a week in our basement when I came down there. No big deal. He's an adult, he can do that. My own kids have also saw hubby & I have a drink, or have seen a bar at a restaurant.
My kids also love horror, ie R rated films, & have watched them. They are happy & well adjusted. My own Mom shielded me from alot, & hubby laughs all the time on things I never experienced because of my Mom's overprotectiveness. lol

Just what I said earlier, parent your kids, don't expect the gov't to do it for you. If others don't parent like you do, DEAL w/ it. lol I'm in the middle. Not as right as some, not as left as others. =)

Novel, just my thoughts. =)

I personally think the "Zion Curtain" idea is ridiculous. I think its more the product of smug, self-righteous people who don't want to be around drinkers than people who have a legitimate concern about their children and alcohol.

That being said, I think on the whole that Utah's restrictive liquor laws have served us well. We have the lowest rate of drunk driving in this nation. We have correspondingly low rates of disease caused by alcoholism such as cirrhosis of the liver. These lower death rates translate into lower health care costs and lower insurance costs (both auto and health). I am glad we don't allow stores to sell wine and hard liquor. I think it is appropriate to limit the licenses given to clubs, saloons, and bars. DABC will heavily fine such establishments for the the violation of any of our liquor laws and they should. Put em out of business unless they operate in a super safe way.

It doesn't work to just make drunk driving laws tougher. The whole culture has to work in a way that reasonably restricts the availability of liquor to avoid these problems. Lots of states have tougher drunk driving laws than Utah does. Every one of those states has a higher rate of drunk driving than we do too.

Its not just a matter of personal choice. Its a matter of public safety.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4036542.shtml

[BuckeyezRule]

^^ I do agree w/ you. I do drink, but would never drive drunk. I've been a passenger. lol (of a DD) I strongly support tough DUI laws. &, yes, I hear of FAR, FAR fewer accidents & fatalities here as from Ohio w/ drunk drivers.

I also hear of many fewer accidents involving the elderly, like driving the wrong way on the highway. But, that's because we are alot younger here. I'd like to think, as w/ DUI's, we are smarter too????? I can only hope. I'm more afraid of the texters than the DUI's now. How sad is that?

[mleblanc138]

Originally Posted by BuckeyezRule

I'm more afraid of the texters than the DUI's now. How sad is that?

*Picture of a cell phone with text*

Hey, what's up?

Will these be your final words? textfreeroads.info


Very powerful ad I've seen on benches at bus stops throughout Utah County. It should be on freeway billboards if it isn't already.

[cedarite]

Originally Posted by markg91359

I

It doesn't work to just make drunk driving laws tougher. The whole culture has to work in a way that reasonably restricts the availability of liquor to avoid these problems. Lots of states have tougher drunk driving laws than Utah does. Every one of those states has a higher rate of drunk driving than we do too.

Its not just a matter of personal choice. Its a matter of public safety.

The thing is, the vast majority of drunk driving is done by binge drinkers on a bender, not people having a glass of wine with dinner.

For me personally, the main issue is that without available liquor licenses, the type of new establishments in the state will tilt toward Chuck-a-rama swill and pablum and fast-food-oriented-to-toddler-palate type eateries and all of us will be missing out on more food choices. Even the lowly chicken wing emporiums are talking about pulling out of the state at this point...dining choices will only be going down hill from there, especially in the south where we quite possibly will never get any more licenses again as they are so few in number they will all be allocated to the all-important north.

[irman]

Originally Posted by markg91359

Its not just a matter of personal choice. Its a matter of public safety.

The original intent of this post, I think, was the question of *the Wall*.

OK, then does *the Wall* really improve *public safety* ?