Moab - The Good, The Bad ... (Richfield, Kanab: low income, for sale, real estate)

[w8n2ski]

I'm looking at a potential relocation to Moab for work and play. Any advice for a midwesterner considering a move to the Moab area?

[jollygirl]

First off it really depends on what kind of work you do. The biggest economy there is tourism, so your best hope for work is service based, unless you are in the medical field. I know someone who runs a hotel there. He says there is a constant need for employees with a good work ethic, so there is work available. As far as living there, I almost moved there last May, in April I went down to find a rental and it was nearly impossible. Housing is limited and pricy. In fact in my search efforts I found many more vans for sale than houses/apts to rent, since that is part of the culture there, living simply in your van by the river (can be charming, I suppose). Try looking for a palce to live in the off season (Dec-March), you may have better luck then. I'm not sure about real estate, if your in a position that you can buy. As far as leisure goes, Moab is great, that goes without saying. In the town there are bike paths everywhere so getting around is easy and enjoyable. People are also really friendly there. Good luck, if Moab does not work out Salt Lake is pretty cool too, take it from another former midwesterner.

[ki2serenityLV]

I am from that area and there is alot to consider before moving there. A.) Do you like really hot summers? B.) Do you like to spend quite a bit for housing? C.) Are you an outdoor enthusiast who doesn't mind alot of tourism?

Moab is a great town, but I have found there are two kinds of people there. The rich people and the poor people. The rich people own businesses the poor people run them and everything works out great.

[moabmindy]

I moved to Moab from Denver first in 1998 stayed a year until my contract working with the school expired, then commuted for 2 years on weekends to be with my fiance, finally moving buying a house and cutting the corportate cord in 2001. We lived for 4 years in Green River - a community 45 miles away - where we purchased a cute house (built in 1910 on 1/2 acre w/water rights and 100 feet from Main Street) for $38,000. Eventually we sold the house for a loss just to get away from that horrible community, and have been living in Moab again since 2005. Moab is a beautiful location and it is not dominated by the LDS - the vast majority are not bad, but the ones that are, REALLY ARE!

As ki2serenityLV states about Moab - there are rich and poor. Very little middle class.

In Denver, I worked as a Data base administrator and Network Engineer, earning $75k/yr with excellent benefits. I have a bachelors in Biology and a Masters in Computer Science.

Jobs pay very little here. The employers don't pay anything close to realistic wages. I worked as full time e-commerce website manager at Zeal Optics for $12/hr. When I wanted to negotiate a higher wage, I was let go, and the labor board decided that because I was asking for more compensation, I was refusing to work and then endured a winter of no financial assistance and incapable of keeping up with bills. Zeal found someone else desparate to work for peanuts. I now work for a metal art studio as marketing coordinator and product designer. I now earn less than $25,000 per year. It is a full time position and those are rare.

Needless to say, there are no health benefits. Those are available only to the lucky few that find a job with a county/state/city job. Those jobs are rarely available and though I don't think it is the rule, there is a spat of nepotism that goes on here. Unless you have children, the state SCHIP health program is only available to people earning less than $22,000/year for a couple. My husband and I are slightly over that threshold.

Hotels pay about $8-$10/hourly depending on the clientele and restaurants/gift shops pay minimum wage - $5.85/hr. These jobs are seasonal and unemployment is the rule from Oct 15 to Mar 15 every year.

Housing is best found in December/January when the rental units are sitting empty. You'll save hundreds per month finding a home in the next 4 weeks as opposed to looking in March through October when all the transient workers push the rates up.

My suggestion is to make your own destiny. It is very difficult to carve out an niche in this economy, but it is possible. This past August, someone just moved in and brought a Yamaha dealership. There was no powersports dealer in town. He seems to be doing well. I know I was happy to be a customer, buying a motor scooter for cheap transportation.


Here are some websites that can help you look at housing and employment opportunities.

www.moabadvertiser.com - a local thrifty nickel type weekly publications. Hardly anyone puts classifieds in the Newspaper. Will have rentals listed, events, some jobs.

www.moabtimes.com - our weekly paper. requires a paid subscription (dumb) and has very few local jobs or rentals listed in the classifieds. But is is THE way to be informed as to the local squabbles and issues.

jobs.utah.gov. Search the electronic job board. our zip code is 84532 or grand county.

Best wishes
Mindy in Moab

[jdavid93225]

Well, you've already heard most of the bad news about Moab. The good news is that it's a beautiful place, and if you're into mountain biking or four wheeling, there are plenty of places to enjoy those activities. Moab is a pretty small town with not much around it for amenities. Grand Junction is probably the closest "big" city, and is about 100 miles away. Have you thought of living someplace like that, and just visiting Moab for your recreational activities?

A couple other suggestions to think about would be Richfield or Kanab, depending on what you're looking for. There are more likely job opportunities in those communities, and still plenty of recreational opportunities around. It really depends on what activities you're looking to participate in, and what type of employment needs you have.

[acemoab]

2010 UPDATE:

Moab still sucks. There is now no work of any kind here. I cannot use my education, or my body to make any money at all. One used to be able to live in anything, but now the county government is selectively enforcing the building codes and throwing people off their own property, even if they have lived in their shanty, or whatever, for twenty years. I don’t know what to say about gentrification when it takes the form of forcing folks to install a prefab double wide. Squalor is squalor regardless of whether it supports the National Building Code, or not.

Moderator cut: rude and off topic I wish the middle class would migrate here, but let’s face it, there is nothing for them. The schools are a nightmare, there are no amenities for kids, and the housing choices are frightening. County taxes are going up exponentially. Even though I get a senior/low income abatement, my local taxes are my largest single expense. Impact fees to build a home cost the same if you put in a tiny one room house with one bathroom, or an airplane hangar sized McMansion with wall-to-wall toilets and a water feature in every room. So you had better be wealthy and have a source of income from elsewhere to succeed here. It also helps to have a winter retreat on a tropical island.

Yes, the scenery is nice. The weather is nice as long as you like to either freeze or bake. So if you can eat rocks and use them for your sole source of entertainment you should thrive in Moab. And to those of you who will suggest I leave, if I sold my property (at a loss) I could last about five to seven months before becoming homeless, even if I got a fairly good paying job. I am stuck here. DON’T LET IT HAPPEN TO YOU.

[ChrisC]

I really wish you'd try not to candy-coat it so much.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by acemoab

And to those of you who will suggest I leave, if I sold my property (at a loss) I could last about five to seven months before becoming homeless, even if I got a fairly good paying job. I am stuck here. DON’T LET IT HAPPEN TO YOU.

Sorry, but that's exactly what I'm going to suggest. From the way you describe Moab, I think you might be happier homeless. Moderator cut: rude

[markg91359]

Moab still sucks. There is now no work of any kind here. I cannot use my education, or my body to make any money at all. One used to be able to live in anything, but now the county government is selectively enforcing the building codes and throwing people off their own property, even if they have lived in their shanty, or whatever, for twenty years. I don’t know what to say about gentrification when it takes the form of forcing folks to install a prefab double wide. Squalor is squalor regardless of whether it supports the National Building Code, or not.

Moderator cut: rude and off topic I wish the middle class would migrate here, but let’s face it, there is nothing for them. The schools are a nightmare, there are no amenities for kids, and the housing choices are frightening. County taxes are going up exponentially. Even though I get a senior/low income abatement, my local taxes are my largest single expense. Impact fees to build a home cost the same if you put in a tiny one room house with one bathroom, or an airplane hangar sized McMansion with wall-to-wall toilets and a water feature in every room. So you had better be wealthy and have a source of income from elsewhere to succeed here. It also helps to have a winter retreat on a tropical island.

Yes, the scenery is nice. The weather is nice as long as you like to either freeze or bake. So if you can eat rocks and use them for your sole source of entertainment you should thrive in Moab. And to those of you who will suggest I leave, if I sold my property (at a loss) I could last about five to seven months before becoming homeless, even if I got a fairly good paying job. I am stuck here. DON’T LET IT HAPPEN TO YOU.

I'm reading between the lines here, but what I seem to be hearing from you is that your a person who wants to get by in life by not doing very much. You probably chose to live in Moab solely because of recreational opportunities and natural beauty. There's nothing wrong with that, but that dream doesn't pay the bills.

Its my observation that people with the mindset I've described above have a difficult time in life. This modern world is really not designed for people who just want to "do the minimum" and just slide through. I am not saying you are one of them, but I don't really respect people who just want to live "in a van down by the river".

You complain about taxes, but assert that the schools in Moab are poor. Do you draw any connection there? Good schools require a sufficient tax base. You can't have a sufficient tax base for good schools if everyone is getting a property tax abatement. Maybe you don't have kids, but if you benefitted during your life from public education its only fair you pay taxes for public education.

You complain about building codes. Building codes are generally in place because of legitimate health and safety issues. Outdoor toilets and septic tanks don't work when you have more than a few people living in an area. They have to be upgraded to a modern sewage system. This costs money.

Moab is basically a tourist and retirement town and places like this have unique drawbacks. They have issues that surround rapid growth. If you like Moab because of its natural beauty, perhaps you should have been able to guess that other people would feel the same way and growth would become a problem.

I'm sorry things haven't worked out for you. If you do ultimately move, you might pick a place that isn't growing as fast as doesn't have the same issues as Moab.

[acemoab]

Moderator cut: personal attack I wish with all my heart that the American dream of rags to riches were true. The point of my posts Moderator cut: cannot discuss mod actions on forum was that Moab is NOT as wonderful as some people make it out to be. I, in fact, work long hours for extremely little money. I like to work. Moderator cut: not allowed The world-wide depression has hit less hard here than many other places. This would be great news if the average person here had anything to lose in the first place. Now, homelessness here is becoming much more prevalent. Rents are skyrocketing. The trailer next door was $600 a month last year, now it is rented, at least for the moment, for $900, and shared by THREE FAMILIES. One of my best friends, who works at the job service, makes my negative opinions look like flattery. She is highly discouraged by the poor quality of the schools, which is certainly NOT a problem unique to here, and for the future of her job. The irony that one of the best jobs here is handing out unemployment checks and food stamps does not escape her. She maintains that Moab is not a good place for her kids because there is nothing here for them, and because most activities are too adult and dangerous for children.
If you have a skill or wish to start a business here, make sure it benefits the demographic: the working poor, the extreme poor, and the occasional lower middle class person innocently trapped here. My friend’s self storage business is always full. He is traveling in an attempt to find work, and I am running it for him. The $50 per month he is paying me seems like free money, since I only spend two days a week on the effort. All would be fine for him if the taxes hadn’t gone up so much that he only clears about $500 a month from the business.
I also help a licensed contractor design and install solar electric systems. He has virtually no business, and is in California because his wife has a kidney infection that cannot be easily treated here. This is naturally bankrupting him, which does not require explanation.
The odd jobs, cleaning up, painting, hauling trash, or maybe digging the odd sewer trench are the only things, other than the kind assistance I receive from the federal government, that are keeping me from complete destitution. At one or two jobs a month I rake in mad Benjamins at the amazing level of about $150, in a good month. No, I don’t and can’t drive due to poor vision. So please get the image of me as an obese welfare queen driving a luxury SUV out of your prudent, conservative mind. I would gleefully accept a minimum wage job, if they actually hired people my age, and if there weren’t ten people, quieter, more compliant, and more beautiful in the queue ahead of me.
Your class-based attack is what is rude and off-topic. People here are generous, want to contribute, pull their own weight, and progress, but we can’t, and it is not our fault. You say I don’t pay my fair share. What is a fair share of essentially nothing? I came here to be near a special person. She died. I don’t care about the ugly rocks. I can stand the extreme heat and cold. When it is too cold inside, I go outside and stand in the sun. Sometimes I sweet talk my way into the community theater when they are having a rehearsal. There is amazing talent here, despite the hardship, or perhaps because of it. Moab Community Theater puts many larger towns' efforts to shame.
You suggest that health and safety codes are all about what they seem to be. I maintain that they mostly protect the property values of the wealthy, and commissions of realtors. My storage locker robber baron buddy actually had what he thought was a legal, sanitary dwelling, complete with building permits, although it was made out of Edward Abbey’s discarded travel trailer and a bits of PVC pipe. He lived in it for twenty years, but left in disgust when the county harassed him. He spent a year’s profit on lawyers convincing them to back off. So far, they seem to have ceased in complete confusion, but they also seem to make up the rules as they go along.
Developers, beware, the corruption in this area won’t enhance your profit here. My contractor friend is having similar problems. Bribery is the solution, if you have something to give, but he does not. There is another form of nepotism rampant here, which I would surely get banned or censored for naming, as well. Utah is more famous for this than our snow and rocks.
Don’t plan to get sick here. There is a six week wait for a doctor’s appointment, and they don’t take new patients. Feel free to go to our beautiful new hospital emergency room. Take your credit card or you will die on the sidewalk outside. So if you are tired of Detroit, downtown Baltimore, or the drug wars in Mexico, this place is flat out fantastic. I know where you can get several pieces of property at below market prices, including my worthless home, which no one will buy at a price that would allow me to physically move and rent, let alone buy a replacement. Detroit is beginning to look great.......