Utah Valley - Can we be allowed to share our experiences? (American Fork: apartments, to live in)

[surfagoody]

Cycle,
Just found this thread and must admit I haven't read the whole thing, but think I get the gist. Seems you've had a rough go of it on this post as well as in your new neighborhood. If I could I would like to comment on my experience and not rehash anyone else's. Scratch that I will save my experiences for when I have more time. Instead I will merely comment on how great the military experience is. I remember you saying about being a military brat and all.

I am an army man myself, or was one anyway. Originally from hawaii but spent enough time everywhere else to get feel for life. I miss the military with a passion it was a place of true acceptance I enjoyed the sense of community and zest for life those around me had. It seemed no matter where we went our nights were spent out on the porch socializing with neighbors all of which we considered friends. Our friends were not contingent on anything than the simple fact that they were there making a sacrifice taking the hard knock life gave and driving on. Every person from a different walk of life. Different religion, nationality, and politics. I didn't get mad at my drunk neighbor when he would go all political on me and insult everything I believe. Or even disgusted with a soldier for having an affair on her husband while he's gone on deployment. It's not for me to judge but instead have compassion and understanding for what is a really difficult time for couples. Unless you've been there you have no idea.

The examples could go on for day's but I think you get the hint. Utah seems to be lacking in this tolerance. At least in comparison with those who many would consider degenerate sinners. The contrast for those who would really expect different coming to such a place is shocking. For those who get upset about people who have had bad experiences with your happy valley. Perhaps you could take some lessons in tolerance. Bickering about who did what and why won't justify anyones position. But it will draw the lines a little deeper in the sand.

I've got a few ideas why utah county is the way it is and I think its pretty obvious what you can expect when you get that many people who share the same ideology together and then throw a pebble in that pond... At first it causes some waves then it eventually sinks to the bottom and the pond is able to smooth over like nothing ever happened.

[stycotl]

Originally Posted by Cycle

oops, for heavens sake, I did not mean to come on here and antagonize a lot of people...I just wanted to post what my experience has been like moving to Utah Valley and not being of the predominant religion. The honesty with which I speak has not been tolerated well on this thread...didn't realize that being honest was antagonizing.

i didn't even see this post.

i'll reiterate what cinnabon said; it had much more to do with your inability and lack of desire to look at anything from another person's point of view.

also, as long as we're on the subject:

going back to the beginning, i specifically asked if this is what you felt, or if you really did think it was a mormon issue. you responded that you were being taken out of context, and that we need to stop attacking you, but never even mentioned who you were refering to, and didn't accept our claims that no one was attacking you.

incidentally, i am still wondering about that, as you haven't answered the question--this is another reason that effective communication was impeded. i was left with the assumption that my earlier guesses had been right, since they were never actually addressed, just belittled and insulted.

you still haven't even made a peep in the direction of explaining your earlier statements and smoothing out the confusion and apparent misunderstandings.

until that point, it seems more like you are generalizing and making emotionally charged responses, which is the exact opposite of intellectual honesty.

Utah seems to be lacking in this tolerance.

you ever live in the south? how about the mideast? south america maybe? what about california, specifically san francisco or berkley?

honestly, anywhere, for that matter.

i promise you, utah has no monopoly on judgmental hypocrits.

i was in the military; i remember those chummy talks with all of my buddies–atheists, wiccans, and baptists among them. it happens here in utah too. but you might need to get over this idea that all utahns are jerks in order to see it. till then, jerks are all you are gonna see.

aaron out.

[surfagoody]

Originally Posted by stycotl

you ever live in the south? how about the mideast? south america maybe? what about california, specifically san francisco or berkley?

honestly, anywhere, for that matter.

i promise you, utah has no monopoly on judgmental hypocrits.

i was in the military; i remember those chummy talks with all of my buddies–atheists, wiccans, and baptists among them. it happens here in utah too. but you might need to get over this idea that all utahns are jerks in order to see it. till then, jerks are all you are gonna see.

aaron out.

Yes, Yes, and Yes

I stated that I have been numerous places. All the ones you have mentioned in fact.
No I have not labeled utahns as jerks and am unable to draw the comparison. Especially when you discuss the middle east. Muslim beliefs do not lend themselves to tolerance. The south is very friendly true to the term southern hospitality.
I think you may be confused with living and visiting. Often people can be suspicious of visitors. ( just speculation)

As far as tolerance goes. The dominate religion in the valley we are discussing is one that embraces christian values and as such many would wonder why so many have had negative experiences, with what many would consider, less than christ like behavior.

As far as those chummy talks with your buddies of a different religion. I didn't make any claims about a lack of conversation. I'm not sure why the attacks. I discuss a message of tolerance and this is what comes.

I hope you and yours have a nice evening.

[kaytidid]

Originally Posted by surfagoody

Yes, Yes, and Yes

I stated that I have been numerous places. All the ones you have mentioned in fact.
No I have not labeled utahns as jerks and am unable to draw the comparison. Especially when you discuss the middle east. Muslim beliefs do not lend themselves to tolerance. The south is very friendly true to the term southern hospitality.
I think you may be confused with living and visiting. Often people can be suspicious of visitors. ( just speculation)

As far as tolerance goes. The dominate religion in the valley we are discussing is one that embraces christian values and as such many would wonder why so many have had negative experiences, with what many would consider, less than christ like behavior.

As far as those chummy talks with your buddies of a different religion. I didn't make any claims about a lack of conversation. I'm not sure why the attacks. I discuss a message of tolerance and this is what comes.

I hope you and yours have a nice evening.

Surfagoody..

I believe Stycotl was addressing the OP.

[surfagoody]

Originally Posted by kaytidid

Surfagoody..

I believe Stycotl was addressing the OP.

Got you. Saw the military part and figured was addressing me.
Thanx

[stycotl]

i was actually addressing both surfagoody and cycle.

i'm not sure what you mean by:

As far as those chummy talks with your buddies of a different religion. I didn't make any claims about a lack of conversation. I'm not sure why the attacks. I discuss a message of tolerance and this is what comes.

the message seems a little confusing. what attacks are you referring to? what came of your message of tolerance?

i noticed that you mentioned that you've lived in many places. i have too, and i have noticed all of these intolerances in every place that i have bothered to look for them, even in utah, and yes, even in the hospitably friendly south.

therefore, again, if your message is that people in general (including mormons, utahns, and utah mormons) need to be more tolerant, then i agree. if your message is that mormons are more intolerant than others, i'll tend to think that you, as seems to be the case with cycle and a few others, are not being intellectually honest with yourself.

aaron out.

[kaytidid]

Originally Posted by stycotl

i was actually addressing both surfagoody and cycle.

Sorry for butting in....bad habit of mine.

[stycotl]

Originally Posted by kaytidid

Sorry for butting in....bad habit of mine.

don't worry about it. i am more of a butt than you are, i'd be willing to bet. betting about butts...

[kaytidid]

Originally Posted by stycotl

don't worry about it. I am more of a butt than you are, i'd be willing to bet. Betting about butts...

rofl..

[Cycle]

stycotl,

Again, I ask you to re-read my posts, I have made it perfectly clear and I do not know how to say it any clearer, IT IS A MORMON/NON-MORMON ISSUE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD! I don't for the life of me understand why all of you refuse to accept that it is happening the way it is happening...I keep trying everyday to live my life as a christian regardless of what others do, but nothing you all say on this thread is going to change the fact that it exists. If people would stop denying that it is occurring and admit it could be happening maybe we could get somewhere constructive in this conversation rather than being destructive.....And all these posts about how it happens everywhere else in the world does not mitigate the fact that it is happening here and it doesn't make it OK! That is like telling my kids it is ok to be bullies and mean to others because kids do it everywhere, stop justifiying and start accepting. I am tolerant to a fault, but I came on here hoping that maybe there could be some discussion with others about how I could possibly bring about a change in my neighborhood and help my mormon neighbors be more accepting of us...maybe someone out there has experienced what I have experienced and was able to break through...give others a chance to speak about their experiences and stop being so negative.