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Old 08-25-2013, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
24,269 posts, read 24,827,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irman View Post
Temple Square is not just one building ...
But the Temple is. It is the building to which entrance is restricted. Your question, "Have you ever been *in* the Vatican?" certainly did sound as if you thought the Vatican was a single building, particularly in the context of this discussion.
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
24,269 posts, read 24,827,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LolaG View Post
I've been to the Vatican twice (the Vatican is a city) and inside St. Peter's Cathedral both times with a zillion tourists about me in long lines to enter. When Pope John Paul II was alive, I attended a private mass in a smaller chapel with my group, a class from my university where not everyone was Catholic. It was private in that it needed to be scheduled ahead of time and also due to space limitations; no one was checked to go in if they were Catholic or not. It's free to go into St. Peter's Basilica although you have to pay to get into the Vatican museum. I've had Mormon friends do the same when they went to Rome and loved the beauty of it and have expressed how welcoming it was. It is a popular pilgrimage site for Catholics and nonCatholics alike.
I went to Rome some years ago. Overall, the city didn't do much for me at all, but I absolutely loved the Vatican. St. Peters was beyond beautiful. Way, way beyond beautiful.
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
The Church's position (as stated above by Old Trader) is that the temple is "sacred, not secret" and when it is functioning as a temple only people who meet certain criteria will be allowed inside.
As a practicing Mormon, I've always had a real problem with the statement "sacred, not secret." It's as if those two words were mutually exclusive, which they're not. We're always telling people that the Book of Mormon is "sacred" and then we encourage them to read it. We don't say, "It's sacred. It's off-limits to you." So I personally think that phrase ("sacred, not secret") was not very well thought out. I'd say that the details of what transpires in the temples are indeed "secret." But that shouldn't in any way suggest to anyone that they are in some way sinister. Certain information, whether it be political, religious, or simply personal, is not meant to be shared with everyone.
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:13 PM
 
Location: God's Gift to Mankind for flying anything
5,599 posts, read 12,110,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
But the Temple is. It is the building to which entrance is restricted. Your question, "Have you ever been *in* the Vatican?" certainly did sound as if you thought the Vatican was a single building, particularly in the context of this discussion.
OK, agreed.

While you *visited* Vatican City, have you tried and were able to walk along the streets inside the walls of Vatican City ? Those are only available for the few that have the Vatican Passport ... No idea how you get that piece of paper, I did not ask !

While we there, I inquired what we could or could not see, and the list was *half a mile long* of parts we were not able to see.

This is just to clarify, that akin to Temple Square, where there are parts on Temple Square, *the regular public* can not see on any visit, Vatican City has many parts where you as *Joe Blow*, just are not allowed *in*.

I just can not believe that the *Offended Tourists* were not properly told *why* only certain people were allowed into the Temple.

Also, when somebody states that Catholic Cathedrals are open to the public, they must have missed all those *barriers* placed all over those Cathedrals where they really do not want you to go ...

Cathedrals, built by any religious groupe, should not be put in the same Class as Temples.
They could be compared to the regular houses of worship, called *Ward Buildings*, or *Stake Centers*.
Even in those buildings, not every *Joe BLow* is allowed to every inch of those buildings.
Regular buildings in the LDS faith are not especially built for Beauty, but are built for some kind of multi-purpose efficient use by ALL the members of the LDS religion.
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:15 PM
 
404 posts, read 1,079,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irman View Post
OK, agreed.

While you *visited* Vatican City, have you tried and were able to walk along the streets inside the walls of Vatican City ? Those are only available for the few that have the Vatican Passport ... No idea how you get that piece of paper, I did not ask !

While we there, I inquired what we could or could not see, and the list was *half a mile long* of parts we were not able to see.

This is just to clarify, that akin to Temple Square, where there are parts on Temple Square, *the regular public* can not see on any visit, Vatican City has many parts where you as *Joe Blow*, just are not allowed *in*.

I just can not believe that the *Offended Tourists* were not properly told *why* only certain people were allowed into the Temple.

Also, when somebody states that Catholic Cathedrals are open to the public, they must have missed all those *barriers* placed all over those Cathedrals where they really do not want you to go ...

Cathedrals, built by any religious groupe, should not be put in the same Class as Temples.
They could be compared to the regular houses of worship, called *Ward Buildings*, or *Stake Centers*.
Even in those buildings, not every *Joe BLow* is allowed to every inch of those buildings.
Regular buildings in the LDS faith are not especially built for Beauty, but are built for some kind of multi-purpose efficient use by ALL the members of the LDS religion.
Oh my dear sir you are WRONG. In the Catholic faith a Cathedral is the equivalent of your many temples. They are the head church in the diocese which is larger than your wards/ stakes. It is where our priests are ordained, some, not all, people marry, and they are headed by a Bishop, Arch Bishop, or Cardinal. Our churches are more like your buildings/ centers...Anf believe it or not, i can remember attending basketball games in the church basements back in the 59s and 69s so even church basketball is not unique to you. Our cathedrals are grand and built for beauty. Have you not seen pictures of the Cathedral of Notre Dame? However, I do not want to take over this thread with Catholicism, I just don't want you making light of my religion's cathedrals. At Joe Blow can step foot inside a cathedral and attend Mass or whatever other function is taking place, unlike your temples through which even members of the religion may not enter. Yes, there are places off limits but those are mainly the places where the priests store and change into their priestly apparel. So plese, don't tell me that your temples are holier than my cathedrals.....maybe in your mind but not in the eyes of this Irish Catholic woman!

And with that, I am exiting this thread.
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Happy in Utah
1,224 posts, read 3,145,509 times
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jfitt,you explained the importance and beauty of Cathedrals much more better than I could. IMHO though God is all around us and he can inspire us build beautiful buildings, but when it comes down to it. As beautiful the building might be it is still at the end of a day just a building. God resides in our hearts and our minds.
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Old 08-25-2013, 09:59 PM
 
9,824 posts, read 9,561,435 times
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Quote:
So plese, don't tell me that your temples are holier than my cathedrals.....maybe in your mind but not in the eyes of this Irish Catholic woman!
Your Catholic Cathedrals and Mormon Temples, are not the same, and are used for two different purposes.
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Old 08-25-2013, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
24,269 posts, read 24,827,688 times
Reputation: 11753
Quote:
Originally Posted by irman View Post
Cathedrals, built by any religious groupe, should not be put in the same Class as Temples.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfitt View Post
So plese, don't tell me that your temples are holier than my cathedrals.....maybe in your mind but not in the eyes of this Irish Catholic woman!
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
Your Catholic Cathedrals and Mormon Temples, are not the same, and are used for two different purposes.
That's right... Catholic cathedrals and Mormon temples are not used for the same purpose. Both are generally very beautiful and both hold a special place in the hearts of those who worship there. As to which is "holier," that might be a topic best taken to the Christianity forum. Please!
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:08 AM
 
Location: Mostly in my head
19,862 posts, read 60,446,320 times
Reputation: 19261
Back to topic please. It's cultural practices of the LDS.
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Old 09-06-2013, 07:12 AM
 
Location: East Millcreek
2,507 posts, read 5,946,856 times
Reputation: 2911
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernBelleInUtah View Post
Back to topic please. It's cultural practices of the LDS.
Thanks for a great segue to the topic of Utah vs non-Utah LDS. I stumbled onto a fascinating semi-scholarly article by a social scientist at Weber State U on student's conflict resolution styles. It's a bit long but very accessable. The author compares LDS vs non-LDS and local vs out-of-state behaviors. His research indicates that the dominant conflict resolution style for Utah LDS is "avoidance" which plays out socially and interpersonaly as passive-aggression. He ascribes this to specific Utah LDS culture and practices. I think it goes a long way to explaining some of the posts here and in the SLC forum, from "social awkwardness" to oddly passive-aggressive driving habits. See for yourselves and make of it what you will.

Passive-aggression among the Latter Day Saints
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