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Old 01-29-2011, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Mostly in my head
19,855 posts, read 65,704,038 times
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Back on topic, please.
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:08 PM
 
226 posts, read 566,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernBelleInUtah View Post
I don't know where you guys are driving! I stay downtown, in the Foothills/Avenues and Sugar House areas and most drivers I see are courteous. Maybe b/c they aren't the soccer moms? Anyway, I've seen much worse in other cities.
I've seen worse too. And I do think it would be exaggerating to say Utah drivers are the worst. But if there's a driving behavior that particularly annoys you, you notice it more.
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:19 PM
 
Location: A Nation Possessed
25,482 posts, read 18,612,470 times
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Moderator cut: off topic

Moving right along, I agree: Let's get back on topic. How about another aspect of inconsiderate Utah driverhood: any joggers out there? I'll bet you have some stories about close encounters of the painful kind with cars (although I'll carefully avoid the loaded word "invariably"). Care to share? I have a few--one particular NDE a couple of years back that prompted me to avoid roads and stay on foot/bike trails as much as possible.

Last edited by SouthernBelleInUtah; 01-29-2011 at 01:29 PM..
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:31 PM
 
Location: USA
498 posts, read 1,452,357 times
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The thing is, if you're a Utah driver, why do you do it? Why do you have so many close encounters with joggers?
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Old 01-29-2011, 09:07 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,189,962 times
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These type of threads are ridiculous. Every driver has a completely different experience than every other driver, so using your personal experience to decide how good or bad drivers are in an area is a joke.

Lets take a look at the pedestrian death rate for Utah, it doesn’t even look like we make the to 25. Fla. deadliest state for walkers, cyclists - USATODAY.com
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Old 01-29-2011, 11:04 PM
 
Location: A Nation Possessed
25,482 posts, read 18,612,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamborgotti View Post
The thing is, if you're a Utah driver, why do you do it? Why do you have so many close encounters with joggers?
I don't understand your question. I jog because I want to spend what time I have on the planet healthy (in as natural a way as possible). I've never had a close encounter with a jogger while driving. What I meant is that I have had several encounters, as a jogger, with cars. And in every case, the driver was not obeying the law. And I've never been the sort of Lycra-clad jogger who runs down the middle of the road saying "check me out," either (there are some who do, which puts them in the wrong if they have a bad experience with an auto).

Here's one example of what I mean: I'm jogging on the walking/bicycle path in a local canyon. I come to a place where the trail crosses the road. There are clear warning signs on the road in both directions about walkers/joggers/bikers and the crossing that is ahead. The speed limit is reduced in the area. The crossing is on a semi-blind corner/hill crest. There is no way to hear or see an oncoming car from that direction if the auto is breaking the speed limit by very much. I'm pretty careful here, but like I said, as a jogger, you're basically blind and deaf at this crossing. I always sprint across it (when I deem it safe) rather than trusting that drivers will be obeying the posted speed limit. Last summer, a car was going so fast that, even sprinting, I was very nearly hit. The guy had to practically lock his brakes up and I still narrowly escaped being hit--we're talking close enough to scare the s%&# out of me.

Normally, we could pass this off as just a bad driver that doesn't care if he runs somebody down, as long as he saves a couple minutes getting to his destination. But the thing is, very few people drive at or below the speed limit on that road. I know, because I typically go no more than a couple of MPH above the limit driving to the trailhead and often have people right on my tail (following way to closely) in an attempt to browbeat me into going faster. I don't. Too bad for them.

The way I see it, traffic laws have a reason--and the reason is not to annoy people. It's to keep others safe and have some semblance of order on the road. There needs to be better enforcement of traffic laws around here. And this is coming from a rather radical freedom-centered, Libertarian-like person. I just don't believe I have (or anyone else has) the right to endanger others because I'm too impatient to drive properly. Honestly, if nobody else is on the road, drive as stupidly as you wish. But if someone else is on the road, you have a responsibility to them. My attitude is that you have every right in my book to play Russian roulette as long as the barrel is pointed at your head... but you don't have the right to point the barrel at me.


As an aside, I think that an "inconsiderate driver" is actually often an "oblivious driver." Way too many people play with toys when they should be paying attention to their driving. I don't think that they are necessarily intentionally negligent fools (some are), but just the same, it isn't going to matter to the person they crash into or run off the road or whatever. They are just as affected either way. In other cases, it's obvious that a person doing dumb things on the road really doesn't know that they are doing dumb things. They don't know the laws. Both of those cases is as much the fault of the driver education system as it is the person's. Maybe we just need to be a bit more careful about putting people behind the wheel of a potential several thousand pound weapon without providing them the knowledge needed to keep it from being a weapon. Education: I think it could go a long way in this case. Show people what can happen if they are texting while driving (it's worse than drunk driving) by showing them films of the bloody accident scenes. Show what can happen when you don't know what you are supposed to do in a given situation on the road. If a person has a little fear and respect for the piece of machinery they are operating (the car), it might help them make better driving decisions.

As for statistics, if you take into account the population of the two states, Utah's fatal crash rate in 2008 was higher than California's. Utah is 1.06 per million and California is 1.05 per million. The worst state (for 2008) looks to be Montana (wow! Never would have guessed that) and the best, Massachusetts.
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Old 01-30-2011, 07:54 AM
 
14,379 posts, read 14,203,333 times
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I am not trying to say that there aren't other states with inconsiderate drivers. However, as Chris pointed out above, the accident rate (per miles driven) is actually greater in Utah than in a congested over-populated state like California.

There are way too many people here doing things like "multi-tasking" while they drive. Cell phone usage while driving a car is very, very high here. Cell phone usage and trying to control children while a family makes some kind of a trip is also extremely common.

A pedestrian crossing a road in Utah takes his life in his hands more so than in most other places that I have seen. Utah drivers can in no way be relied upon to stop for a crosswalk. I've been in crosswalks here countless times while one or two vehicles are stopped and one buzzes right through. Honestly, if you ask me, this is an offense worthy of a short jail sentence. Forget about monetary fines. You go through a crosswalk with a pedestrian in it (and other vehicles are stopped) you should be sent to the county jail to spend the weekend. I once caught (and reported) a UTA bus driver who went through a crosswalk while a pedestrian was in it. I'd suggest we mount cameras around crosswalks to detect drivers who do this very thing.

The statistics don't lie. If California is doing better than we have more than our share of unsafe drivers.
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:54 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,189,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
The statistics don't lie. If California is doing better than we have more than our share of unsafe drivers.

According to this study Utah is the 7th best state for drivers knowledge of the rules. http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7637202&page=1

This survey takes into account several factors. “To ensure that tiny Rhode Island and mighty California were measured evenly, we averaged these driver-caused fatal crashes by the number of total number of drivers licenses issued in each state. And to make sure that we weren’t penalizing states where the average motorist drives more—and thus gets into more accidents—we also factored in how many miles each driver in the state logs, and how much time they spend in their car, adjusting the numbers accordingly. “ http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...ccidents/full/

Sorry to disappoint you guys but Utah only came in as the 27th worst. North Dakota was the worst and California did beat us coming in at number 40. Part of that is due to the fact that it is difficult to get in fatal crashes when you are going 4 miles an hour on the freeway.

So back to the drawing board, I am sure you guys can dig up more horrible things about the evil state.
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:48 PM
 
Location: A Nation Possessed
25,482 posts, read 18,612,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
According to this study Utah is the 7th best state for drivers knowledge of the rules. Top States with America's Worst Drivers - ABC News

This survey takes into account several factors. “To ensure that tiny Rhode Island and mighty California were measured evenly, we averaged these driver-caused fatal crashes by the number of total number of drivers licenses issued in each state. And to make sure that we weren’t penalizing states where the average motorist drives more—and thus gets into more accidents—we also factored in how many miles each driver in the state logs, and how much time they spend in their car, adjusting the numbers accordingly. “ Worst Drivers in America: Which State Has the Most Accidents? - The Daily Beast

Sorry to disappoint you guys but Utah only came in as the 27th worst. North Dakota was the worst and California did beat us coming in at number 40. Part of that is due to the fact that it is difficult to get in fatal crashes when you are going 4 miles an hour on the freeway.

So back to the drawing board, I am sure you guys can dig up more horrible things about the evil state.
I don't know what "the daily beast" is or where they are getting their numbers, but the stats I provided came directly from the government National Highway Traffic Safety Administration website. Not that I really trust the government in much of anything, but I think I'll trust them over "the daily beast." Simple per capita stats. Easy to understand. Easy to interpret.

Because some Utah drivers lack driving knowledge and skill says nothing about how "evil" the state is. We can all only base our own opinions on our own driving experiences in this area. As I've said several times here, I've never been in any sort of accident and never so much as had a parking ticket. I know what constitutes good and safe driving (mainly because I have common sense), and I'm simply stating that there are many, many drivers around here lacking in judgment, skill, and knowledge of traffic laws. It is what it is. And it has nothing to do with being evil. I have noticed over the years that those who don't notice crappy driving around here when they see it are generally part of the problem.

As for not having fatal crashes on Utah freeways, I can tell you that I witnessed what could have been one just yesterday near Orem. Please don't take this wrong, and I'm not bragging about myself--just giving an example--but it was because of my attentive actions that a car in the next lane was not plowed into (rear ended) by an eighteen wheeler going pretty fast. I noticed what was going on (I was to the side eighteen wheeler in the next lane over) with cars ahead of us, dead stopped in all three lanes. The eighteen wheeler didn't notice until it was way too late for him to stop. Had I not noticed that he was going to slam into the stopped car in front of him, and released my brake, speeding ahead of him so he could swerve into my lane, before I then slowed to a stop (there was a few car lengths more room ahead of us in my lane), someone would have been hurt or killed for sure. There were cement construction barricades on both sides of the freeway, stopped cars to the eighteen wheeler's left. A stopped line of cars in front of him... and me in the other lane, thankfully anticipating what would have happened and doing what I could to prevent it. The truck driver noticed what I had done, swerved very quickly just in time to avoid the car in his lane he would have rear ended (and I mean it was literally a couple of inches), and followed me to a quick stop in my lane. He knew that I'd seen what was going on and had given him a way to prevent him hurting or killing someone and losing his job. He blinked his headlights to acknowledge it once he was behind me and we were stopping.

So... please don't tell me things are so safe on the freeway. I see these kinds of things at least a couple of times a year. The last one was a mini-van end-over-ending down the middle of the freeway after she hit a cement construction barricade, her tire climbed up the side of it and it flipped her vehicle like it was doing a cartwheel. This was only a couple of cars in front of me and I saw the whole thing. It was a miracle that the lady actually lived through it--yeah, I (and hundreds of other drivers) got to sit and watch as the authorities cleaned it up and cleared the road. There is nothing safe about driving. It's a responsibility many people don't take seriously.

Last edited by ChrisC; 01-30-2011 at 02:24 PM..
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:26 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,189,962 times
Reputation: 3632
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
I don't know what "the daily beast" is or where they are getting their numbers, but the stats I provided came directly from the government National Highway Traffic Safety Administration website. Not that I really trust the government in much of anything, but I think I'll trust them over "the daily beast." Simple per capita stats. Easy to understand. Easy to interpret.

Because some Utah drivers lack driving knowledge and skill says nothing about how "evil" the state is. We can all only base our own opinions on our own driving experiences in this area. As I've said several times here, I've never been in any sort of accident and never so much as had a parking ticket. I know what constitutes good and safe driving (mainly because I have common sense), and I'm simply stating that there are many, many drivers around here lacking in judgment, skill, and knowledge of traffic laws. It is what it is. And it has nothing to do with being evil. I have noticed over the years that those who don't notice crappy driving around here when they see it are generally part of the problem.

As for not having fatal crashed on the freeways around here, I can tell you that I nearly witnessed what could have been one yesterday near Orem. Don't take this wrong, and I'm not bragging about myself, but it was because I my attentive actions that a car in the next lane was not plowed into (rear ended) by an eighteen wheeler going pretty fast. I noticed what was going on (I was to the side eighteen wheeler in the next lane over) with cars ahead of us, dead stopped in all three lanes. The eighteen wheeler didn't notice until it was way too late for him to stop. Had I not noticed that he was going to slam into the stopped car in front of him, and released my brake, speeding ahead of him so he could swerve into my lane, before I then slowed to a stop (there was a few car lengths more room ahead of us in my lane), someone would have been hurt or killed for sure. There were cement construction barricades on both sides of the freeway, stopped cars to the eighteen wheeler's left. A stopped line of cars in front of him... and me in the other lane, thankfully anticipating what would have happened and doing what I could to prevent it. The truckdriver noticed what I had done, swerved very quickly just in time to avoid the car in his lane he would have rear ended, and followed me to a quick stop in my lane. He knew that I'd seen what was going on and prevented him hurting or killing someone and losing his job. He blinked his headlights to acknowledge it.

So... please don't tell me things are so safe on the freeway. I see these kinds of things (although usually less dramatic) at least a couple of times a year on the freeway. The last one was an SUV end-over-ending down the middle of the freeway after she hit a cement construction barricade, her tire climbed up the side of it and it flipped her vehicle like it was doing a cartwheel. This was only a couple of cars in front of me and I saw the whole thing. It was a miracle that the lady actually lived through it--yeah, I (and hundreds of other drivers) got to sit and watch as the authorities cleaned it up and cleared the road. There is nothing safe about driving. It's a responsibility many people don't take seriously.

Per capita includes children who don't drive old people who don't drive and those without cars. Licensed drivers and miles driven sound a little more accurate. Sorry. Of course if Utah had been the worst you would love it!

Just think how much more you will get to complain about in your future state, they are number 1, the worst, you will be in heaven!

Unless you drive the exact same drive as every other person in the state, you can only give an opinion about the time you drive. Your experience is only that, yours.

I have been around dozens of close calls also, once after a light rain in CA on the 101 I had 6 cars spinning out of control all around me. They were all crashing all over, in front of me, behind me beside me; I somehow made it by staying straight. I also saw a van flip 2 lanes over from me once, again that is what I saw and the others around me, no one else had the exact same experience. I could say that Californians spin out all the time in rain based on my experience but in reality. Some do, some don’t.

We all know you hate it here but saying your experience should be what we all experience is ridiculous.

BTW, never had an at fault accident and only about 4 tickets in almost 30 years of driving, so no, I am not the problem, as my wife says I drive like a grandma.
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