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By your standards then, do you regard Phoenix, AZ as being "very walkable"?
All those stores you mentioned are spread out in such a huge area-- and reality is there's waaaayyy more cars around than walkers.
Can't speak to Phoenix, but, indeed, the bulk of Fisher's Landing and Cascade Park is quite walkable. All the stores mentioned in my message are surrounded by sidewalks and sit along or near C-Tran bus lines. One could shop Fred Meyer off Southeast 164th Avenue, head over to Pier 1, Michael's and Best Buy - all three of which play nicely together in the same well-maintained shopping center - and then enjoy various cuisines at several independent or popular chain restaurants - all w/o turning the ignition of a car. And that's just one itinerary. Having more cars than walkers does not alone make an area less walkable. And walkability does not require every amenity be squeezed into one square-foot radius. You'd be surprised how many folks in the area happily get around by foot or bike.
Ummmm... East Vancouver is walkable from your car into the big-box store... That's about it. You NEED a car to go anywhere over there. Lived in that area for a year.
But yeah, it sounds like the OP has never been to Vancouver. I'd recommend neighborhoods in Portland like Northwest, Alameda, Beaumont, Mount Tabor, Buckman, Sunnyside, Ladd's Addition...
There's nothing, even in Portland, *quite* like Queen Anne. You get the similar vibe, definitely, but you don't have the big, beautiful, quiet, view houses and campus of Upper Queen Anne so close to the urban, walkable, trendy areas of Uptown/LQA. But all of the neighborhoods I mentioned would probably suffice well enough.
Folks who've invested more time there know better. A good mix - and growing - of restaurants, small shops, big chains, banks, grocers, gyms, cinemas, churches, insurance agents and more within walking distance of the housing stock around key corridors of the Fisher's Landing and Cascade Park areas. One can even walk to the new branch of Clark College, which sits steps away from two different newer shopping centers that handle everything from haircuts, gardening needs and home improvement to food cravings, fashion fixes and car repair. Sidewalks and bike lanes all the way. Love Portland, but 'tisn't necessarily the be-all and end-all of the metropolitan area.
Can't speak to Phoenix, but, indeed, the bulk of Fisher's Landing and Cascade Park is quite walkable. All the stores mentioned in my message are surrounded by sidewalks and sit along or near C-Tran bus lines. One could shop Fred Meyer off Southeast 164th Avenue, head over to Pier 1, Michael's and Best Buy - all three of which play nicely together in the same well-maintained shopping center - and then enjoy various cuisines at several independent or popular chain restaurants - all w/o turning the ignition of a car. And that's just one itinerary. Having more cars than walkers does not alone make an area less walkable. And walkability does not require every amenity be squeezed into one square-foot radius. You'd be surprised how many folks in the area happily get around by foot or bike.
I am there a lot. My point about the cars: its not that "walkable" as everyone understands it. Just because you could walk from point A to B doesn't make it "walkable"... I can walk to Vancouver from Seattle, I'm not going to say it's "walkable" even though technically speaking it is. Quite frankly, there aren't even that many walkers around in that area, especially when you compare to the amount that Queen Anne (and those kind of neighborhoods) have. Nor is it a conducive environment for the walkability factor-- the area is too spread out.
It is, though mostly flat, not a walker's paradise, despite what the picture you're trying to create. That area is as Car Central as you can get. Even my husband who grew up and still has family in the area is completely astounded that someone could suggest that it's "walkable".
It's definitely no Queen Anne and a lousy substitute of a suggestion.
I am there a lot. My point about the cars: its not that "walkable" as everyone understands it. Just because you could walk from point A to B doesn't make it "walkable"... I can walk to Vancouver from Seattle, I'm not going to say it's "walkable" even though technically speaking it is. Quite frankly, there aren't even that many walkers around in that area, especially when you compare to the amount that Queen Anne (and those kind of neighborhoods) have. Nor is it a conducive environment for the walkability factor-- the area is too spread out.
It is, though mostly flat, not a walker's paradise, despite what the picture you're trying to create. That area is as Car Central as you can get. Even my husband who grew up and still has family in the area is completely astounded that someone could suggest that it's "walkable".
It's definitely no Queen Anne and a lousy substitute of a suggestion.
Tsk. Tsk. Let's leave the nastiness for the trolls. No need to criticize others' opinions that, thanks to informed experience, are different from your own. Sidewalks, shopping proximity and variety, public transportation, bike lanes, housing access, health care, transient lodging, dining options and entertainment all contribute to an area's walkability. Walkability centers on daily living, including the infrastructure and amenities that help make it convenient to handle errands w/o using a car 24/7. It's not about being able to hoof it from Vancouver to Seattle or expecting folks to ditch their cars altogether. Again, you'd be surprised how many folks in the area happily get around by foot or bike. Some neighborhoods in the area are more walkable than others - especially near the Mill Plain Boulevard and 164th Avenue corridors. With that and so much more, I heartily encourage the OP to check out Fisher's Landing and east Vancouver. Oh, and for that Vancouver-Seattle trek: definitely recommend a car, bus or train. Peace.
It's not walkable. The VAST majority of people in that area do not walk there and cannot reasonably access it on foot. We're talking reasonable here. Yes, if you live a couple blocks off of Mill Plain Blvd then you can walk to many of the amenities there. Where I lived before I could relatively easily walk to Fred Meyer, Burgerville, Walmart, Trader Joe's, teriyaki, Thai food, some dental offices, banks, etc., but was it practical for me? No. It would take a mile or more to get to some of those places, and not everything I needed was right there in that immediate area. I still needed to commute into Portland for work or entertainment. Not to mention that C-Tran is kind of a joke. For the average driver they could adjust to living without a car on KC Metro or TriMet. C-Tran? No way. If you're desperate, C-Tran is basic transportation for you. And sure, you can drive out to Fisher's Landing and then walk around that area to get most of what you need to do done, but you still have to drive there. Sure there are bike lanes on McGillivray, but it's kind of a bike path to nowhere, and it's one of the few good ones in the area, but only services certain areas and requires a great distance to get to others that would be useful. Biking down Ellsworth Road during the day? I'd almost rather ride down Chavez Blvd (39th Ave) in Portland, depending.
I agree there is a great deal of services in that area and there are sidewalks, but to call it walkable, especially in comparison to Queen Anne, is misguided. There is a lot more to walkability than just those two things--it needs to be accessible for pedestrians too. The few people that do bike or walk there I highly doubt do so happily. A lot of the businesses are spread out from I-205 all the way down Mill Plain to 164th and then are spread all the way down that street--that's almost 4 miles. I lived with some super bikey Portlandian people in Vancouver and they chose to drive most of the time rather than bike because it is easier to do drive. Or, in other words, it's difficult to get around on foot or bike in that part of Vancouver. When you have to wait 5 minutes for the crosswalk sign to turn green you'd be better off driving if you'd get there in 3 minutes by car.
I really like Vancouver and for some people it is a great place to live, with the Cascade Park and Fisher's Landing neighborhoods being among the best in the city. If I were done with my undergrad, let alone grad school, and had a good job offer there I would consider going back to Vancouver, especially if I was wanting to start a family since they have some pretty good schools there. That said, nowhere in Vancouver has anywhere near the same kind of vibe as Queen Anne in Seattle. It's not Portland and that's great, but then again... it's not Portland. YMMV.
Last edited by backdrifter; 05-30-2012 at 01:09 AM..
It's not walkable. The VAST majority of people in that area do not walk there and cannot reasonably access it on foot. We're talking reasonable here. Yes, if you live a couple blocks off of Mill Plain Blvd then you can walk to many of the amenities there. Where I lived before I could relatively easily walk to Fred Meyer, Burgerville, Walmart, Trader Joe's, teriyaki, Thai food, some dental offices, banks, etc., but was it practical for me? No. It would take a mile or more to get to some of those places, and not everything I needed was right there in that immediate area. I still needed to commute into Portland for work or entertainment. Not to mention that C-Tran is kind of a joke. For the average driver they could adjust to living without a car on KC Metro or TriMet. C-Tran? No way. If you're desperate, C-Tran is basic transportation for you. And sure, you can drive out to Fisher's Landing and then walk around that area to get most of what you need to do done, but you still have to drive there. Sure there are bike lanes on McGillivray, but it's kind of a bike path to nowhere, and it's one of the few good ones in the area, but only services certain areas and requires a great distance to get to others that would be useful. Biking down Ellsworth Road during the day? I'd almost rather ride down Chavez Blvd (39th Ave) in Portland, depending.
I agree there is a great deal of services in that area and there are sidewalks, but to call it walkable, especially in comparison to Queen Anne, is misguided. There is a lot more to walkability than just those two things--it needs to be accessible for pedestrians too. The few people that do bike or walk there I highly doubt do so happily. A lot of the businesses are spread out from I-205 all the way down Mill Plain to 164th and then are spread all the way down that street--that's almost 4 miles. I lived with some super bikey Portlandian people in Vancouver and they chose to drive most of the time rather than bike because it is easier to do drive. Or, in other words, it's difficult to get around on foot or bike in that part of Vancouver. When you have to wait 5 minutes for the crosswalk sign to turn green you'd be better off driving if you'd get there in 3 minutes by car.
I really like Vancouver and for some people it is a great place to live, with the Cascade Park and Fisher's Landing neighborhoods being among the best in the city. If I were done with my undergrad, let alone grad school, and had a good job offer there I would consider going back to Vancouver, especially if I was wanting to start a family since they have some pretty good schools there. That said, nowhere in Vancouver has anywhere near the same kind of vibe as Queen Anne in Seattle. It's not Portland and that's great, but then again... it's not Portland. YMMV.
See all my responses above. The OP apparently is relocating to Vancouver, WA - not Portland - and thus probably would appreciate some Vancouver-related suggestions. I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Vancouver mirrors Queen Anne. Like it or not, however, parts of Fisher's Landing and Cascade Park are nicely walkable, and at least one Cascade Park neighborhood is considered one of Vancouver's top 10 walkable areas. With C-Tran, C-Van, the Fisher's Landing park-and-ride transit station, dedicated bike lanes along nearly every major road - thanks to various transportation-improvement plans - and other factors that contribute to walkability and livability, I heartily encourage the OP to check out Fisher's Landing and Cascade Park. And, yes, there are folks who happily get around in the area by foot or bike. Doesn't mean everyone hoofs the pavement or that folks never use a car. The OP can explore the area and decide. Peace.
See all my responses above. The OP apparently is relocating to Vancouver, WA - not Portland - and thus probably would appreciate some Vancouver-related suggestions. I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Vancouver mirrors Queen Anne. Like it or not, however, parts of Fisher's Landing and Cascade Park are nicely walkable, and at least one Cascade Park neighborhood is considered one of Vancouver's top 10 walkable areas. With C-Tran, C-Van, the Fisher's Landing park-and-ride transit station, dedicated bike lanes along nearly every major road - thanks to various transportation-improvement plans - and other factors that contribute to walkability and livability, I heartily encourage the OP to check out Fisher's Landing and Cascade Park. And, yes, there are folks who happily get around in the area by foot or bike. Doesn't mean everyone hoofs the pavement or that folks never use a car. The OP can explore the area and decide. Peace.
You are conveniently ignoring that the OP is asking for a Queen Anne type of neighborhood and the answer that you gave is ultimately the Queen Anne antithesis. That's not helpful either. Sure it helps to give a Vancouver-related answer, but ultimately, Vancouver has not developed in those terms that the OP is asking for. There's no shame in that. The closest and most reasonable suggestion that Vancouver itself could offer but wouldn't quite match would be Esther Park or living within 5 blocks of Vancouver DT.
Ultimately the OP will see it for herself and decide then whether PDX is a better location for her or not. If s/he decides then s/he's ready for something different, then your suggestion comes into play. Because otherwise it is a nice clean area with lots of newly built homes and lots of stores. (But its still unwalkable.)
Hey there, OP. Also meant to mention that in addition to pluses such as walkability, the Cascade Park-Fisher's Landing area offers quick access to Washington State Route 14 and Interstate 205, two routes that may figure prominently in your car travels around the Portland-Vancouver metropolitan area.
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Walkable is certainly subjective. East Vancouver (164th ave) will allow to walk a 'suburban' landscape. (Crossing 6 -8 lanes of traffic (traveling 40 mph) and once you cross, THEN traversing a 300-500' parking lot to get to the store front. Not impossible, lots of folks do it, and it can aid your exercise quotient.
Just that most services are there, BUT proximity is a few miles vs a few blocks. You are generally restricted to 'mid-box-store' (Target, Freddy's, Kohls...) instead of mom and pop.
Proximity is nice to SR 14, but I head EAST (west columbia gorge) rather than west (PDX). When going to airport, I try to schedule my flights so I can grab a $0.99 Breakfast at IKEA.
We recently moved to Vancouver from Snohomish, WA. If you are set on living in Vancouver vs. Portland then definitley check out Fisher's Landing area. I love to walk/jog and enjoy the shopping in the area. Yes............there are big box stores, but there is also a Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Chuck's Produce and New Season's all within a couple miles of each other. Vancouver has a decent Farmer's Market and if you stay in the right areas it's not a bad place. Took me a while to get used to it, but we are finding it a good place to raise kids. Bike lanes on lots of the streets and low crime rates. Definitly a suburban feel to it, but it's convenient and people are nice. Great schools. Fisher's Landing Elementary and Riverview Elementary are both highly regarded. My husband took a job in Portland but we decided on SE Vancouver or Camas because the schools were better. Lots of activities for kids and families.
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Seattle vs. Vancouver
