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We are a Bay Area family thinking of relocating to the Vancouver/Camas area this year.
Schools are the top priority as we have a middle schooler and one starting high school in August.
From what I've read, we want to stay in East Vancouver/Camas area. We are looking into new construction.
There are SO many schools listed and we are planning a scouting trip in February so don't want to waste our time looking in neighborhoods that won't be in the desired district/school assignment.
QUESTION: What are the area's more desirable middle schools and high schools? We don't need super top level/super competitive schools but somewhere with a strong community, families who care and good teachers. My girls are your typical A students that are self-directed and social.
Edited: I really can't go by Great Schools or Niche as my daughter's current schools are rated 7/10 (high school they would attend if we stay here) and 4/10 (middle). The schools aren't anything to brag about but the teachers are solid and they have nice friends.
THANK YOU so much! Appreciate any input that can guide us towards some areas.
Last edited by browneyedmama03; 01-04-2020 at 11:52 AM..
Most people who's primary motivation is finding the highest rated schools will choose the Camas school district. A lot things like test scores and rankings are really reflections of the wealth of the community both in Washington, and frankly everywhere else. But, for example, Camas HS produced 5 national merit scholars last year while the other 20 or so high schools in the greater Vancouver combined to produce 5 total.
Within Camas I don't think it makes the slightest difference which neighborhood you chose for schools. The 6 elementary schools and 2 middle schools are all very equal in every way and deliberately so based on how the school district draws the boundary lines. Your two middle school options in Camas are Skyridge which is the newer school on the west side of Camas or Liberty which was converted from the old HS building near the Camas downtown area. Both are beautiful schools with equivalent facilities and staff. Skyridge is more modern school architecture. Liberty is more old school (varnished woodwork and waxed floors) but nice. I would give no thought to which one you'd be zoned to if you move to Camas. They are equivalent.
In East Vancouver you are in the Evergreen School District which has 4 comprehensive high schools (Union, Mountain View, Evergreen, and Heritage) as well as a health sciences magnet school called Henrietta Lacks that is located next to Peace Health Hospital. Union is a beautiful new-ish school on the edge of Camas (address is actually Camas) that draws from the most affluent areas of the Evergreen district. Union has a similar high-achieving student body to Camas with lots of students in advanced AP classes and such. I've worked at Union and would send my kids there without reservation. Shahala Middle School is the one next to Union HS and seems decent but overcrowded as they have a sea of portable classrooms there. Honestly Evergreen is behind the curve on school construction compared to Camas. If you google map all the schools in the district other than Union you see a sea of portable classrooms around every single one. I don't know anything about any other middle schools in the Evergreen school district. Your primary concern in the Evergreen district is which HS you are zoned to. They have open enrollment so I think you can get boundary exceptions. But they won't provide bus transportation to a school outside your boundary area.
Regarding the other high schools in Evergreen. Mountain View is probably the next best school. It's in the Fisher's Landing area which is reasonably middle class. The problem with Mountain View is that the building is horrible and out of date. It's a collection of older crumbling buildings with classrooms designed to open to the outside breezeways rather than to interior hallways which is a ridiculous way to build a school in the cold rainy Pacific Northwest. It's like they borrowed the plans from warm sunny Southern California when the school was built in the 1970s or something. Evergreen plans to raze Mountain View HS and build a brand new school on the same site in the back of the property where the athletic fields are now. I'm not sure how on schedule they are with the project but the bond $$ have been approved. It is oddly difficult to google up any information on the planned new Mountain View HS. But in theory there will eventually be a brand new state of the art HS there so it could be a decent option. This is all I can find on the Mountain View HS replacement which says scheduled start date is summer 2020. Amazing that they don't have more information like elevations, floor plans, video walk throughs, etc.. At least I can't find it: https://sites.google.com/evergreenps...evergreen/home
The other two high schools in the Evergreen district draw from more working class areas and are not going to be as highly rated mainly because they draw from a more diverse and lower socio-economic population. Evergreen is the oldest original HS for the district. It's a confusing maze of old and new remodels and constructions that have been tacked together over time. Heritage is a newer school in the Orchards area of NE Vancouver that is fairly downscale and working class. It was built as a 3-year HS but the district expanded it almost immediately to a 4-year school so they probably have 25 portable classrooms scattered about and it is way overcrowded. The district plans to expand it but I have no idea the status of those plans. You can't find anything about it on their web site. If you pick Evergreen school district then I would rate Union as the highest performing school, Mountain View as a reasonable option once the new school is constructed, and both Evergreen and Heritage as "meh"
Hope that helps. People in your situation moving into the region from out of state and looking for new construction would also look at the Ridgefield and Hockinson areas which are further out and more rural but both are experiencing explosive growth. Both schools are MUCH smaller than Camas and the Evergreen schools in East Vancouver and both districts are experiencing growing pains. Especially Ridgefield which just had a construction bond fail. Ridgefield is one of the fastest growing districts in the state. But in my opinion they are about 10 years behind the curve compared to Camas in terms of school construction and facilities due to two bond failures in the past 10 years or so. It will probably be a generation until they dig out of the hole they are in and the new subdivisions just keep coming.
In West Vancouver there is a lot of new construction in the Salmon Creek and Felida areas. These areas zone to the Skyview and Columbia River high schools in the Vancouver School District. Those are both reasonable choices that would be roughly equivalent to Union and Mountain View in the Evergreen District and a step behind Camas. You would probably want to avoid the downtown and near downtown areas of Vancouver that would zone to Hudson's Bay and Fort Vancouver high schools in the Vancouver District. Those are the "roughest" two schools in the area with the most challenging student populations.
In terms of community support and spirit. It's not even close. The entire Camas community is hugely supportive of the schools. You see flags and banners supporting Camas all over town. The HS football stadium is usually close to standing-room only during home games. And Camas is the only community that has it's own stand alone downtown area. You will see "Papermaker Pride" stuff all over downtown Camas. The HS mascot is the Papermakers. You can be a block away from Union or Mountain View high schools and see zero support or acknowledgement from surrounding businesses that they are even in "Union Country" or "Mountain View Country". Go to a Mountain View HS football game and it's just a few students and parents and less interest than even a 9th grade game would get at Camas. Hockinson and Ridgefield would be a little bit more like Camas in that respect. But neither community really has the same sort of traditional downtown as Camas. Hockinson isn't a town at all but must just an intersection in the road with a mini-mart surrounded by new exurban subdivisions. Ridgefield does have an old downtown area and more community feel but it is much much smaller. Another option I didn't mention is Washougal which is the town east of Camas. Lots of new construction out there and the schools are trending upward but it is still smaller and more blue collar than Camas. Although the gap is narrowing.
To summarize, for high schools in the greater Vancouver area only as I don't really know middle schools outside of Camas. I would very roughly rate them as follows:
1. Camas HS
2. Union HS
3 (tie) Mountain View, Columbia River, Skyview, Ridgefield, Hockinson, Washougal
4. Evergreen and Heritage
Avoid: Hudson's Bay, Fort Vancouver, and Battle Ground schools (Battle Ground and Prairie HS)
Last edited by texasdiver; 01-04-2020 at 12:59 PM..
Wow! Thank you SOOO much texasdiver! I truly appreciate your very detailed reply. I've read other replies you've made about the area and you are a treasure trove of knowledge!
Looks like Camas School District is the winner! I've dealt with schools with portables and contruction going on for the past decade here in the Bay Area and it's not always been the greatest for the kids.
You mentioned Camas HS ... I see other high schools in the district are Discovery and Hayes. How do they compare to Camas HS?
Our local high school has a lot of football support so I love that aspect too.
Wow! Thank you SOOO much texasdiver! I truly appreciate your very detailed reply. I've read other replies you've made about the area and you are a treasure trove of knowledge!
Looks like Camas School District is the winner! I've dealt with schools with portables and contruction going on for the past decade here in the Bay Area and it's not always been the greatest for the kids.
You mentioned Camas HS ... I see other high schools in the district are Discovery and Hayes. How do they compare to Camas HS?
Our local high school has a lot of football support so I love that aspect too.
Again, I am most grateful!
Camas is the big traditional comprehensive HS in the district where most of the students and nearly all of the top academic students attend because it has all the advanced classes. It's the only school that has things like athletics, music programs, marching band, etc. It is over 2000 students. This year it is probably the top HS in the state of Washington in terms of athletics and extracurricular competitions. The state assigns points for each sport and extracurricular competition and awards what they call the Scholastic Cup to the top school in each size category. Camas is currently leading for the large (4A schools) after winning state in both football and cross country this fall and doing well in pretty much everything: http://www.wiaa.com/cupranking.aspx?SecID=346 Camas usually finishes in the top 3 every year along with Mead HS in suburban Spokane and the big affluent schools in Suburban Seattle. It's the kind of school that no one else ever wants to play because they are usually so dominant.
Hayes is a small alternative school near downtown Camas with maybe 150 students. Typically kids who for whatever reason aren't really fitting in at the big HS and want a different environment. They do lots of things like credit recovery for struggling students. That kind of thing. But there are students who just don't like the big competitive HS social environment and like it.
Discovery is a new magnet school built at the old Sharp Electronics campus in west Camas. They are expanding it year by year. Last year was just 9th grade. This year is just 9th and 10th grades. It is a project-based learning campus. You can google what that means. It is one of the new trends in education. Discovery HS is still a work in progress so hard to judge yet. At full capacity they are projecting about 500 students across 4 grades. It is right next door to Odyssey Middle School which is the PBL-based middle school. Kids who need a less traditional school environment seem to like it. But your typical high-achieving straight-A college bound student who is looking for lots of advanced AP classes and such will mostly stick with Camas HS. The Odyssey Middle school and Discovery HS campuses are beautiful facilities into which the district has poured a lot of money. https://www.pblcamas.com/ You would need to visit and check them out for yourself to get a real feel. But since they are magnet schools it isn't going to be a factor in home hunting as long as you are within the Camas school district boundaries. You can make the decision about Camas HS vs the smaller magnet schools later.
Last edited by texasdiver; 01-04-2020 at 02:04 PM..
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Our kids and most their peers (from Camas and Hockinson) did Running Start, Free college instead of HS, (available since 1991) some kids do both, one of mine wanted to letter in several HS sports so they had to put in some extra school time to complete their AA by HS grad. They went to State U's as full Jrs at age 16 and were done with college by age 20, then took Gap yrs for international travel.
Not for everyone, worked great for those I know. (Most of my High Tech / engineer co-worker's kids and teacher friend kids), especially handy for those pursuing long programs. (Drs / Attorneys / Profs / Medical residencies)
Our kids and most their peers (from Camas and Hockinson) did Running Start, Free college instead of HS, (available since 1991) some kids do both, one of mine wanted to letter in several HS sports so they had to put in some extra school time to complete their AA by HS grad. They went to State U's as full Jrs at age 16 and were done with college by age 20, then took Gap yrs for international travel.
Not for everyone, worked great for those I know. (Most of my High Tech / engineer co-worker's kids and teacher friend kids), especially handy for those pursuing long programs. (Drs / Attorneys / Profs / Medical residencies)
Some classes can be taken at East Campus Clark (Camas / Vancouver border).
Running start is great if you are aiming at ordinary 2 or 4 year degrees at in-state public universities. It is useless if you are doing things like aiming for admission into selective private universities like Stanford, USC, Reed College, etc. Or even out-of-state public schools outside the region. They will give credit for AP classes with high scores. But won't even look at granting credit for HS/community college classes. We found this out the hard way when my daughter did the equivalent of running start in Texas and got zero consideration of it at every out-of-state school she applied to. It was a total waste of money as we had to pay for the useless community college credits she took in lieu of ordinary free HS classes.
Running start is also of questionable value for students applying for highly competitive public university programs like, for example, Computer Engineering at the UW. They mainly only accept students as incoming freshmen. They rarely even accept internal transfers from other departments within the UW. So you are wasting your time doing running start if you want to study computer engineering at the UW and enter as a Sophomore or junior. Simply not going to happen. And you are maybe handicapping your admission portfolio if you are forgoing advanced HS classes like AP Physics C to take community college classes.
We just moved here from Monterey last June and were looking for similar things. We also have relatives in the area with teenagers, so had some insight from their experiences and previous visits. I compiled data from multiple sources which included locals with kids in the schools, local relatives, local teachers, realtors, school review sites and actually visiting the schools themselves. Based upon this data and more, here are the best Vancouver public high schools I discovered for us:
1. Camas (east side)
2. Union (east side)
3. Mountain View (east side)
4. Hockinson (east side)
5. Skyview (west side)
6. Columbia River (west side)
While initially researching things we kept hearing about Camas. However, there are other good areas we discovered as well. So its nice to know you have more than 'one' option, especially if the real estate market is tight or you like other areas out here. We actually decided upon the Hockinson School district because its 'smaller'. The students get a greater sense of knowing each other and their teachers while some of the larger schools are bursting at the seams. So far our middle daughter is really enjoying her time at Hockinson High. Our relative's daughters also went here and loved their experience. Two are doing very well in college after graduation, one working on her PhD.
Another thing to be aware of is that most of the high schools on the east side have moved to 'later' start times which research has shown to be better for teenage learners. So that was another consideration for us.
While initially researching things we kept hearing about Camas. However, there are other good areas we discovered as well. So its nice to know you have more than 'one' option, especially if the real estate market is tight or you like other areas out here. We actually decided upon the Hockinson School district because its 'smaller'. The students get a greater sense of knowing each other and their teachers while some of the larger schools are bursting at the seams. So far our middle daughter is really enjoying her time at Hockinson High. Our relative's daughters also went here and loved their experience. Two are doing very well in college after graduation, one working on her PhD.
Derek
The small school vs large school discussion is WAY beyond what we can discuss here. But I've taught at both larger and smaller high schools and I have had kids in both types of schools. Couple of comments:
1. Class sizes are pretty much the same all all the schools in the region because all the schools have similar per-pupil funding. So moving to Ridgefield or Hockinson doesn't mean your teachers will know your kids any better than they will at Camas or Union. Full-time teachers at all those schools are going to have 5 class sections of 25-30 students each on average so 125 to 150 students to keep track of no matter what school they are teaching at. So it is a myth that your teachers will know your kids better at small schools. At REALLY small schools where there is just one or two science teachers who teach kids across multiple grades that would be different. But we aren't talking about those sorts of tiny schools here. As for "bursting at the seams" Ridgefield is more bursting at the seams than Camas by far. That's a result of being behind the curve in school construction not the size of the school or school district.
2. Small schools was a huge educational fad about a decade or so ago. The Bill Gates Foundation funded experiments to convert traditional larger high schools into smaller sub-schools thinking they could generate some sort of positive outcome. My own alma matter of North Eugene HS in Eugene OR took one of those grants in 2006 and did that experiment, diving the school into 3 separate academies, without really any meaningful results and I think they finally abandoned it as I don't see on their web site anymore. Union HS in East Vancouver was actually built in 2007 at the peak of this trend and the school building is designed around 4 separate small school "academies" in that they have 4 different academic buildings around a central quad and a 5th building that is cafeteria/library/main office. Each of the four separate "academies" buildings has a separate office with secretary, counselor, assistant principal and exit to the exterior. But they have given up trying to run the school that way because it just doesn't work. It is a pretty campus but kind of a pain in the ass to operate because, for example, they have science labs spread across 3 different buildings rather in a traditional design where they are all in one wing so it's a pain for science teachers to collaborate and share equipment. You have attendance clerks and such duplicated in each building. Etc. etc. It doesn't work because students don't want to be constrained by the offerings in just one 'academy'. A student might want to take AP Biology, regular English, AP History, and pre-Calculus which might spread them across 4 different buildings because they can't possibly offer every permutation and level of every class in every single building. So they just gave up trying to pretend that it was 4 separate small schools. You just can't slot kids into a single 'academy' as freshmen and expect them to stick there for 4 years, only taking advantage of 1/4 of the HS they are attending. I don't think they are even going to bother with that idea with the new Mountain View HS judging from the drawings so I think that trend has run its course.
3. My own observation is that smaller schools tend to provide the most opportunities to what I would describe as ordinary mainstream kids who are good kids but not ultra exceptional or eclectic. The kids who like to get involved in everything, do multiple sports, music, student government, etc. etc. At bigger schools some of those things can be pretty competitive. So, a kid who might be a starter on the football team at say Ridgefield might barely get on the field at Camas which just won the 4A state championship and put 5 kids on the first-team all state team and sends multiple kids to D1 college football teams every year. My 11th grade daughter ran cross country at Camas but didn't make the varsity this year. The varsity girls team placed 2nd in the state this fall and has a bunch of really talented runners so breaking into the top 7 is really tough. She probably would have made varsity and lettered at a smaller school. But honestly she didn't really care and just liked running with her friends. The kids who excel the most at big schools and who are often underserved at smaller schools are the really off the charts smart kids who often don't find many peers at smaller schools. And also the more eclectic kids with narrow interests who are more likely to find similar peers at larger schools. The really hard core music kids, or computer kids, or theater kids, for example. Or if your kid is some type of minority like an LGBT kid. There is just a bigger core of those kids of kids in larger schools.
I'm not trying to sell large or small schools. Each kid is different. But I would quibble with the notion that there is something magical or superior about smaller schools. I don't think that notion is necessarily born out by experience. My two younger daughters attending larger schools have the same number of friends and know their teachers just as well as my older daughter did when she was attending a smaller school. But they have opportunities in their larger schools and are challenged in ways (making the top bands and athletic teams) that my older daughter wasn't.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdiver
Running start is great if you are aiming at ordinary 2 or 4 year degrees at in-state public universities. It is useless if you are doing things like aiming for admission into selective private universities like Stanford, USC, Reed College, etc. ...
Running start is also of questionable value for students applying for highly competitive public university programs like, for example, Computer Engineering at the UW. ....
Very expected and common response from a Public School employee. (or Ex)
Our RS kids had no problem doing their grad programs at private U's (Accepted at Berkeley, Stanford, UoP...). Several in our Camas youth group and Homeschool group went on from RS / U to ncompleting their PhD's. In fact most did higher level degrees, since they were at least 2 yrs ahead of their PS peers with no debt.
My STEM coworkers kids just went RS to STEM last yr to UW and WSU and UoP engineering programs with transfer contracts / accepted courses. No AP required. Works fine for tens of thousands of WA students who prefer NOT to attend a Public HS. As mentioned, MOST (~70%) of the emploees kids at my local high tech did RS instead of HS. Many proceeded directly to their parent's Alma Mater (Usually Stanford, Cornell, Rice, MIT, ), We only hired the top engineering grads from top US U's (for last 60+ yrs).
RS is just another choice for / instead of HS (Thank goodness for the sake of the appropriate RS bound and successful students).
Yeah. OK Stealth. How many of these brilliant Stanford-bound running start kids entered Stanford as 18-year old college juniors based on community college classes they took in high school? Show me an example of any student in the history of Stanford who did two years of HS running start classes at Clark College and then entered Stanford as a junior.
I never said they weren't going to get into Stanford or any other elite school, just that Stanford isn't going to let your skip your freshmen or sophomore year based on running start community college credits. I defy you to show us a single selective private college anywhere in the country that is going to accept running start credits AS COLLEGE CREDIT and advance entering 18 year old freshmen as sophomores or juniors. What they will do is treat running start credits as HIGH SCHOOL credit and treat it just like they were ordinary HS classes as long as those running start credits were used to meet WA high school graduation requirements.
I'm currently in the process of doing college visits with my HS daughter and running start credit is a specific question I actually ask the admissions counselors at the various public and private schools that we visit.
Here are the requirements for bringing college credit into Reed, for example: https://www.reed.edu/apply/guide-to-.../ap-guide.html In order to get running start credit counted at Reed it would have to meet the following criteria:
1. Was not used to meet HS graduation requirements
2. The course covered work at a level equal to or greater than introductory-level courses at Reed.
Most if not all running start credits will fail one or both of those criteria.
They are similar to Reed in that Running Start credits used to meet WA HS graduation requirements are ineligible, and the course has to have substantial overlap and rigor to the equivalent course at Stanford.
Bottom line? A student entering Reed or Stanford or other equivalent selective private colleges anywhere in the country is going to earn a lot more college credit with a bunch of good AP or IB scores (4s and 5s) than they will with a bunch of running start credits.
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