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Old 12-26-2013, 11:22 PM
 
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Vancouver's Skyrocketing Housing Prices: Are Mainland Chinese to Blame? - IBTimes.com
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:01 AM
 
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"blame" means someone did something wrong. Those Chinese buyers did nothing wrong. They simply bought properties with their own income, paid the appropriate taxes, followed the rules. There is nothing to blame them for.

In elite cities like New York and Paris, rich people snap up expensive real estate all the time. Whether for living or investing, that's irrelevant.

While "blaming“ the Chinese for that, keep in mind that large Chinese cities are even more expensive than Vancouver. A three bedroom apartment (not house) in downtown Shanghai and Beijing can easily costs over $1million. Whiling thinking Vancouver is so beyond reach, it is actually a bargain and so affordable with local income.

Additionally, I don't know why the article says Vancouver is the second most expensive city in the world only after Hong Kong. I am sure Paris, London, New York is more pricey. Monaco, Luxembourg, Singapore, Sydney, Tokyo, Shanghai, Moscow, and even Mumbai are more unaffordable than Vancouver. In fact I doubt Vancouver can make the top 20 in terms of high expensive houses.
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Old 12-27-2013, 05:49 PM
 
Location: New York
218 posts, read 466,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
"blame" means someone did something wrong. Those Chinese buyers did nothing wrong. They simply bought properties with their own income, paid the appropriate taxes, followed the rules. There is nothing to blame them for.
Some of them did something wrong of course, but more so in their own home countries. Even though such level of environmental pollution, extortion, bribes and running factories with slave wages and suicide nets around workshops and dorms may be formally legal or at least tolerable there (e.g. in Asia), that certainly is wrong for somebody who has not completely lost one's ethics and moral compass. They're racing people to the bottom there, that's all they do.

There a 2 parties involved here to blame for this tragic situation-- greedy and sociopathic forces in Canadian government that run country like a corporation and allowed so easy access of unethical money to Canadian land and Canadian people for complete passivity and inability to do anything to address issue and save themselves. I'm sure the majority of locals didn't want these "investors" there ever, though some have been brainwashed very well, that's for sure.

The tragedy is displacement of Canada's own people going on there, especially Canadian youth, who basically have been shown a big fat middle finger by this glistening society of that best place on the Earth. That is families not started or broken, children not born, lowered standards of living and having to move away in search of opportunity to buy home and find real careers.

If some western countries, like Germanic countries in Europe, can make it well economically and socially these days without selling their entire cities to overseas investors with highly questionable ethics and ideologies, while at the same time helping own youth in transition from education to workforce and having low unemployment and reasonable home prices, why we can't have the same in Canada? It'd be obviously better for Canadians. The question is rhetorical of course and the short answer is in the 2nd paragraph.

I don't care how much investors pay for their properties and what they pay in taxes-- I don't see any of this, in fact, I didn't see any improvement in these mythical government services there at all when I was living there for years, on the opposite, the services shrunk over the years. The investors didn't create dynamic economy and high quality jobs for the others either. But what I care about is home prices doubled there in mere 5-6 years, but my income (and most of the working professionals) has not.

So, damn it with all those who allowed this to happen to Vancouver and Canada overall, and for the rest-- you won't want or be able to compete with people who make money while not following developed world standards in workplace and ecology, not paying living wages in their own countries, don't kid yourself-- it's a race to the ground. In fact, you wouldn't want these people around, let alone beg them for employment one day.
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Old 12-27-2013, 06:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTourist View Post
Some of them did something wrong of course, but more so in their own home countries. Even though such level of environmental pollution, extortion, bribes and running factories with slave wages and suicide nets around workshops and dorms may be formally legal or at least tolerable there (e.g. in Asia), that certainly is wrong for somebody who has not completely lost one's ethics and moral compass. They're racing people to the bottom there, that's all they do.

.
could you spare people all this cliche?
What they do in China is their own business, and it falls completely out of the jurisdiction of any level of Canadian governments.

Plus, have you been to China and done any direct observation or research before making all these accusations? All these sacrosanct arguments and judging make one wonder. Or is it all from the brainwashing media you are exposed to since you were 7?

The fact is, government any where will welcome new money. They don't care how it is made as long as it is injected into local economy. Governments are in no business to care about it as long as there is nothing illegal happen within their own country. All your moral preaching seems to be completely useless but rather just whining about something you can't change.

The Swiss banks don't care about whether the money is from mafia or drugs either. Do you throw the same trite preaching to Switzerland as well?
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Old 12-27-2013, 06:54 PM
 
Location: New York
218 posts, read 466,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
could you spare people all this cliche?
So, is it improving over there, when are you moving?

3 weeks ago: Shanghai Smog Hits Extremely Hazardous Levels

and that's yesterday: Shanghai Warns Children to Stay Indoors on Haze, PM2.5 Surge - Bloomberg

Nice place for family and children, isn't it? I guess, smog was produced by some kind of volcano by accident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
What they do in China is their own business, and it falls completely out of the jurisdiction of any level of Canadian governments.
What they do in China is their own business of course, but who Canada allows in is up to the government, who is supposed to represent people. Anybody cared to ask locals' take on situation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Plus, have you been to China and done any direct observation or research before making all these accusations? All these sacrosanct arguments and judging make one wonder. Or is it all from the brainwashing media you are exposed to since you were 7?
What accusations to China did I make?

Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
The fact is, government any where will welcome new money. They don't care how it is made as long as it is injected into local economy. Governments are in no business to care about it as long as there is nothing illegal happen within their own country. All your moral preaching seems to be completely useless but rather just whining about something you can't change.

The Swiss banks don't care about whether the money is from mafia or drugs either. Do you throw the same trite preaching to Switzerland as well?
I agree governments will welcome money, but at the same time they should protect interests of people whom it represents. I don't see a good balance happening here. As I said, they're ruining young generation and productive people there, which is a financial apartheid by own government and will have long term consequences. The ultimate example of government caring about money and not giving damn about people is catering to oil extortion companies of African governments. It's not on that level in Canada, but Canada blew it.

In Switzerland though locals are doing extremely well and taken care of, unlike Canadians. Have you seen a poor Swiss? They're considering a mandatory basic income for their citizens now of around $2,800/month and will vote on it soon. Though I'm not sure how it's relevant here, just a detail. And I don't remember entire Swiss cities transformed to something resembling a completely another country, an incohesive dysfunctional Babylon of a kind. What has been done to Canada is just too much.
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:34 PM
 
Location: BC Canada
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Although the fed allowed people to buy their passports, many of the Chinese did a LOT wrong. They are suppose to stay in the country aka residency but as soon as they arrive to buy their house they head back to China. This is why the gov of Canada recently took the unprecedented step of recinding 3000 citizenships and the vast majority were from China/HK.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTourist View Post

I agree governments will welcome money, but at the same time they should protect interests of people whom it represents. I don't see a good balance happening here. As I said, they're ruining young generation and productive people there, which is a financial apartheid by own government and will have long term consequences. The ultimate example of government caring about money and not giving damn about people is catering to oil extortion companies of African governments. It's not on that level in Canada, but Canada blew it.
What the government should do is to foster innovation and competition, create a dynamic private sctor economy and create high paying jobs commensurate with Vancouver's high real estate prices. That's the government's responsibility, intead of deciding who should be allowed to buy houses and who shouldn't just to make sure locals can afford it.

You may advocate forbiding foreigners from buying houses in Canada. Well, how will that make you feel if the US decides to forbid Canadians to buy houses in the sunbelt cities? Put yourself in others' shoes and you may realize it might not be a wise and fair decision.

San Fran Bay's housing prices are as high as Vancouver's, but they have the high paying jobs to support it. Where are Vancouver's $150K jobs?

As to pollution in Shanghai, London has been through this. Soeul has been through this. LA too. It is a phase of development. China will get past it too.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:47 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 12,309,679 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooguy View Post
Although the fed allowed people to buy their passports, many of the Chinese did a LOT wrong. They are suppose to stay in the country aka residency but as soon as they arrive to buy their house they head back to China. This is why the gov of Canada recently took the unprecedented step of recinding 3000 citizenships and the vast majority were from China/HK.
I agree with you. It is too easy to get a Canadian passport - the government should extend the residency requirement, maybe from 3 to 5 years.

However, I feel that Canada shortened the requirement just to make immigrating more attractive - which in my opinion doesn't make sense. If one has no intention to make Canada home, there is no reason to award him with a citizenship, but apparent our government cares too much about the money they bring.

On the other hand, it is not completely those immigrants fault. Many came with the dream of building a life here, only to find that finding a decent paid job is so difficult - engineers and professors end up working at the meatshop because they don't have "Canadian experiences", while on the other hand, the union workers with a high school dilopma are making enviable salaries and benefits.

Despite Vancouver's natural beauty, people still need to make a living. If many locals are even struggling, imagine the life of those immigrants who don't know a soul in the city, their credentials not recognized and their English with thick accent. They head back because that's where they can make money, can you blame them?
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Kalamalka Lake, B.C.
3,170 posts, read 4,411,867 times
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When B.C.'s government practically paid Li-Ka-Shing to develop False Creek and Yaletown after Expo 86, it was all to the good side. Condominiums were "normal" living for Asians, so the sell side was easy. Red China was pointing missiles at Taiwan and the race off the island was on. Next!

With a small population base we just notice more the impact of some crisis somewhere and see the arrival of new faces. It's just that these faces had money, and lots of it. Indirectly, with most favoured nation status the US actually gave Taiwan the money (1950-1990) for those homes in Vancouver. Go figure.

Langley, B.C. was considered the boondocks in 86, but my uncles ten acres (not subdivideable) was $100,000 in 1978 while my five acres in Whatcom county, just three miles south as the crow flies, was 12,000. You couldn''t get my uncles place for a million today.

Recently there's been a management wave big time from..........drum roll.........Britain. Having gone elitist and pretty much screwed their own middle class, in come the Brits. Shades of 1860. There been a tremendous wave of South African (whites) as the exit there went big time in the nineties. And they brought their business with them.

My country cousin is now a full partner in a Vancouver law firm on the sunny side of forty, and just recently bought a car. Amazing from someone who comes from a part of Canada where there are multiple vehicles (and gun racks) in every family.

It's just a different place, Vancouver. After the war (WW2) there was a wave all through the fifities and sixties of Italian, Greek, and Slav. families and they, too, put their wealth into their home. It's just part of their culture. The commonwealth has an Act that considers other member countries citizens with alacrity, so our base continues to be South Africa, especially recently, India, and other member countries.

Last edited by thedwightguy; 12-31-2013 at 12:44 PM.. Reason: finish comment
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Old 01-10-2014, 05:27 PM
 
Location: New York
218 posts, read 466,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
What the government should do is to foster innovation and competition, create a dynamic private sctor economy and create high paying jobs commensurate with Vancouver's high real estate prices. That's the government's responsibility, intead of deciding who should be allowed to buy houses and who shouldn't just to make sure locals can afford it.

You may advocate forbiding foreigners from buying houses in Canada. Well, how will that make you feel if the US decides to forbid Canadians to buy houses in the sunbelt cities? Put yourself in others' shoes and you may realize it might not be a wise and fair decision.
In a general case, the government is there to represent the interests of the people. So, it may do whatever it takes to accomplish that, including setting immigration policy for the betterment. But I doubt they ever consulted with public opinion. I like Switzerland in this regard-- they hold referendums on a lot of important and controversial issues-- like whether the mosques should be allowed to be built in a certain canton or not. It's because that's about which policy and the rules community actually living there wants to have. Of course, Switzerland is being bullied and demonized now, a process being led by the same forces who just want to dilute everybody into a mish mash of confused lowly paid servants with nothing up their names.

I think your example with the US is not very useful-- you comparing some people from a country of 35 mil coming to a 300 mil country vs. people of 1,300 mil country experiencing economic boom and rapid growth of nouveau-riche class coming to a 30 mil country, and for a great part into a 2 mil urban area where there's a major stronghold now. And while immigration is important and can bring positives, too much medicine is a poison, you know, and it's a game of numbers here.

And how would Canadian "feel", if banned from buying property in Arizona, is not important here. Maybe Canada should invite those islands to become part of own country. If a US state will decide at some point they're overrun with foreigners buying property in their communities, they should be able to try to update laws and policies accordingly. No big deal. However, I don't remember any US city overrun by foreigners that resulted in a loss of local culture, community and resentment on such a scale that is happening in Vancouver now. I've lived there for several years and I could easily feel tension in the air.
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