Vancouver vs Seattle (hotel, neighbourhoods, construction)

[Waterlooson]

Originally Posted by rifleman

One of the more common comments about Canada in general is in relation to their health care system. Just seven quick examples of how bad it is up in Vancouver:

One: My wife had a miscarriage first pregnancy, but is Rh-. Her specialist OBGYN "forgot" to give her the Rogame injection that protects the following pregnancy, and we didn't know about it until she was (successfully) pregnant again in the US and was talking about it with her new OBGYN. That doc was aghast! Nice I.

Two: My best friend had some problems and was in the Vancouver General Hospital. He clearly and repeatedly told the sign-in nurse that he was almost fatally allergic to aspirin and analogs. But also he had a Med-Alert wrist band noting this clearly. The first-shift attending doc not only heard and wrote down his sensitivity, but also noted it as a special note on the entrance to his private room. Long sad near-fatal story short: the next shift doc, responding to my friend's complaint about a killer headache, orders some Ketorolac after talking to him and reading his chart. Puts the guy into a 10 day coma. All subsequent consultations with other docs indicated that this was a case of extreme neglect and lack of proper diagnosis. Malpractise in the extreme. He lapsed into and out of death three times, and was crash-carted back every time.

Tried to sue, but the Canuck system doesn't go for it. After 5 years of them deflecting, the court settled and gave him $50k. Ooohhhh! After paying his lawyer $28k, he was left with... well, you do the math. Now he's on a vast array of supportive drigs and dreads having to go into the hospitals up there ever again. Nice II.

Three: My dad's pacemaker, for some reason, actually migrated out of his upper chest cavity, breaking the skin open and the corner of it was poking out. Visible! He went to his doc, who said "We're kinda backed up right now. I think that we can get to you in surgery in ohhh 10 days to two weeks" . Nice III!

Four: My mom had to wait 6 months to get a much needed MRI. Here in our very VERY small rural WA St town, I can get one (let's see, it's only 8:30a; lots of time left) by noon today. Worst case, by tomorrow. Using the latest Sanyo unit. My MRI, at VGH, was in what I refer to as "The People's Diesel-Powered Military Surplus MRI Machine" Old, chipped-paint olive drab (looked like they bought it on sale in Russia) and with an aperture about 4" smaller than my shoulder to shoulder dimension and I'm not a big fat guy, just normal. It basically intro'd me to the concept of "Screaming Claustrophobia" which persists to this day even when I enter the room of ANY MRI machine. Nice IV.

Five: My dad has a permanent catheter. He's 97. Last week it plugged up and he called using his Life Line alert system. The ambulance arrived, but it was exactly 12 hours (!!!!!!!!!!) after the first call. He was in excrutiating pain by then. They got him down to the hospital, where, amidst the vast masses of new (mostly illegal) immigrants flocking to the hospital to take advantage of the "Free Health Care", dad wasn't seen for, what do you want to guess? 8 more hours! By then they had put him on a morphine drip. A new nurse came on duty, said "Oh my god!", pulled the plugged catheter, inserted a new one, released the backed up urine, and voila, he was OK. It only took 23 hours... Nice V.

Ask Canadians what they think of their "vunder-health-system" and, just because they "SURVIVED" some medical problem, they'll all say "it's wonderful"! They have NO IDEA about really up to date modern healthcare technologies (as in The Mayo Clinics, where, a few years back, the Canadian Federal Minister of Health went to have his bypass surgery... Hmmm...). Plus, with the government's liberal and entrenched wealth re-distribution philosophy (see: Obama 2009), GP docs are horribly underpaid for their work, often making no more than a good liberal-voting union dock or steel worker.

And of course it's not "free". The tax rate in Canada, versus in Washington State, is on average about 15% higher. (Well, also, see : Obama, 2010 and on). Plus their sliding taxation scale truly punishes an entrepreneurial attitude, simultaneously rewarding sloth. It's all designed to garner votes for their ever-expanding socialist ideals.

I fled that scene, having owned my own consulting company and watched the benefits of my very hard work and personal financial risks going to support some union hard-liner or unemployed recent immigrant from India or Haiti. Unnacceptable. Not racist, but a fact. Verifiable.

But I will say, you've just GOT to visit the sushi bars (Takumi, West Van, north of downtown Vancouver, across the Lion's Gate Bridge) and Chinese restaurants. Some of the best IN THE WORLD.

And University tuitions are very reasonable. Housing not so much.

Finally, the Canadian anti-American snobbery can get tiresome real fast. (Q: What is a Canadian? A: "Well, I'll tell you! I'LL YELL YOU!!! WE'RE SURE NOT AMERICANS, THAT'S WHAT!" ) ...and on and on that idiocy will go until you walk away or stuff their pie-hole with a rolled up American flag. (If it wasn't for a constant US military presence in Northern Canada in the '50s through the '60s, they would all be speaking Russian or Chinese there now, but who cares, eh? They LOVE to snidely "Bush-Bash" at their cocktail parties.)

I'm just sayin... Just a knowledgeable educated commentary from someone who grew up "there" and now lives safely down in the horrid USA near Seattle. I'll take "here" any day, problems or not.

Your choice, as always.

While some of your comments may be off topic, I can't let it all go unchallenged.

Your claims that healthcare personnel in Canada are less qualified (or competent) than they are in the US are patently false... In fact, the reason why the US has poached so many doctors and nurses from Canada (over many decades) is because they are so highly qualified. Sure, Canada has waiting time isssues (partly due to all the US poaching)... but the US has other problems with their system. Furthermore, the UN ranks Canada's system higher than that of the USA... and a few anecdotes from you doesn't change that. When I has in Las Vegas a few years back (spent several summers there) one of the biggest news stories was about all the doctors who were retiring prematurely because they couldn't afford to pay the malpractive premiums.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

As far as national defense... NORAD was implemented primarily to protect the US of A from a surprise attack by Soviet bombers... Canadian assistance/cooperation was critical to protect the US (the DEW Line) ... looks like we were successful because no US cities were attacked during the Cold War.... Then there is the issue of what Canada did for the US on 9/11, and what we have done for you in Afghanistan since then .... you could at least say "thank you Canada".

Regarding differential tax rates... it's very easy to have lower tax rates when you are willing to run huge deficits when the other guy is running surpluses like Canada has ... you forgot to mention that part, eh?.... deficits just defer big tax hikes to the next generation ... just wait.

Regarding supporting the unemployed immigrants... what does the US do? Illegals (and everyone else) can go to hospitals to get treatment and skip out on the bill. I know of hospitals in the US that have had to close because of all the unpaid bills... they can also go to school... all at your expense... is that acceptable?

Perhaps the reason why some Canadians take a dim view of some things "American" is due to arrogant claims, and insulting putdowns/venom by the likes of you... I think so.... and you have the gall to complain about Canadian snobbery... In your case, it's very much a matter of the other side of the fence appearing greener... perhaps you ought to take off the tinted glasses and be a little more objective in your analysis... cause those tax hikes are coming to you... while taxes are coming down in Canada. If it ever comes to the point were operating in Canada is to your economic advantage, I'm sure that you wll be right back, and crying about how horrible the US was to you.

[mishigas73]

I'll answer from someone who lives in a Seattle suburb, and spends weekends up north.

1. Weather: That, to me, is the BIGGEST laugh. And, that's only because I come from the mid-Atlantic East Coast, where "Canada" is thought of as either Montreal or igloos. I'm sitting here at home today, about 20 miles north of Seattle, and it's been snowing since 8 AM (about 7 hours or so). From what I hear, it's pretty sunny up in Vancouver today. Literally, you can go ten miles and go from a blizzard to complete sunshine in this area. Just several weeks ago, I had to stop for the night in Skagit County on my way back from Vancouver, because there were white-out conditions from Mount Vernon on down through Seattle. Funny, I left a blizzard in Vancouver, and thought I was "safe" when it turned to rain in Bellingham. Nope. So, the weather, as compared between Seattle and Vancouver depends, literally, on the hour. The weather in both areas tends to be temperate, and the snow tends to shut down both cities (and pretty much every area in between).

2. The people. Granted, I'm a born and bred New Yorker who came out west, but it seems to me that the people that I have met north of the border are much easier to get along with. Seattle, to me, is just bizarre. I've honestly never been to a place (New York included) where people simply don't say "thanks" when you hold a door open for them. (And, more infruriating to me, they don't "get it" when I say "you're welcome" really sarcastically. LOL) Of course, the "politeness" of the Canucks gets to me as well. But, overall, if I had to be plunked down in a group of strangers, I'd much rather it be people from Vancouver than a bunch of Seattleites.

3. Food. Yeah, I was just commenting to my dad the other day that he should make the trek back to NY and get me some REAL Chinese food and some bagels. They just don't "get it" in the Pacific Northwest when it comes to this. But, the "food" out here, such as it is, is pretty much comparable in both cities. Fine, but definitely "different" from the East Coast.

4. Nightlife. Again, pretty comparable, from what I've seen. Different from other places, but acceptable.

5. Jobs. From what I've seen, the economy in both places ain't great. Fortunately, I have a fairly stable job, so I haven't been looking, so I will therefore defer this question to those who may be "in the trenches" right now.

6. Housing. Eek. Again, not terrific in either area. I'll give a disclaimer before I say another word. My SO is currently dealing with having to "walk away" from a pre-sale that he got into early last spring in southern BC, and is wondering whether the developer will come after him personally for any loss that they may suffer. I'm going between saying that "it's the risk you take" and "wow, that sucks". But, such is the reality up here, on both sides of the border. If you have the means, there are good deals to be found on both sides of the border in the PNW.

7. Lifestyle. From what I've seen (which is living and working in the Seattle area and being in Vancouver over the weekends), it seems to me that the "lifestyle" north of the border is generally WAY more relaxed. People up north are generally way more friendly and easy to get along with. Sometimes irritatingly so.

Hope this has helped, in some way.

[mishigas73]

Originally Posted by rifleman

Finally, the Canadian anti-American snobbery can get tiresome real fast. (Q: What is a Canadian? A: "Well, I'll tell you! I'LL YELL YOU!!! WE'RE SURE NOT AMERICANS, THAT'S WHAT!" ) ...and on and on that idiocy will go until you walk away or stuff their pie-hole with a rolled up American flag. (If it wasn't for a constant US military presence in Northern Canada in the '50s through the '60s, they would all be speaking Russian or Chinese there now, but who cares, eh? They LOVE to snidely "Bush-Bash" at their cocktail parties.)

I'm just sayin... Just a knowledgeable educated commentary from someone who grew up "there" and now lives safely down in the horrid USA near Seattle. I'll take "here" any day, problems or not.

Your choice, as always.

I just have to chuckle with this comment. In my almost 36 years, I've been to Canada MANY times. But, it wasn't until I went up there three years ago to visit my boyfriend that I actually noticed this dynamic.

I sat in the curling club in Vancouver, downing Kokanees, dealing with about a dozen people GRILLING me about American politics. It was, quite frankly, an inquisition from people who seemed to not have a leg to stand on for their position. Honestly, it seemed to matter less to them my reasons for voting in 2004 the way I did than the way I could pound back Kokanees. (And, yes, I DID do the US proud in that respect).

From what I have seen and heard over the past 3 years, I sure hope that fences can be mended. But, honestly, from the ignorance that I have heard north of the border, I don't hold out *too* much hope.

[Atticman]

Originally Posted by mishigas73

3. Food. Yeah, I was just commenting to my dad the other day that he should make the trek back to NY and get me some REAL Chinese food and some bagels.

Oh C'mon - I find it very hard to believe that you can't find any "real" Chinese food in Vancouver of all places!

[Robynator]

Originally Posted by Atticman

Oh C'mon - I find it very hard to believe that you can't find any "real" Chinese food in Vancouver of all places!

Perhaps he means he can't find any Americanized Chinese food aka: "mall Chinese food" in Vancouver (which is also a false claim), but it's true that the majority of Vancouver's thousands of Chinese restaurants tend to be more authentic to what you'd get if you were to dine in Hong Kong.

[rifleman]

Quick Reply to some points made above: Best Chinese food in North America in Vancouver. Anyone who says otherwise is daft or untravelled. (Plus, I just had spectacular sushi yesterday on Broadway... Or try Takumi in W. Vancouver! Almost as good as the best I had in Japan!)

Politically you can take your choice. Most Canucks have never travelled so don't know anything but what The Global TV channel and Tony Parsons tells them each night. Biased? Nahhhh...

We most certainly have our very real problems down in the US. I don't recall saying it was perfect anywhere in my brief post. But Canadians are far far too obedient to government, and a lot of the snobbery Canucks aim at Yanks is pretty much mis-directed and erroneous. Like the blather about the gun crime rate in our US cities: check out Vancouver for the past two weeks.... full auto firearms battles in the streets. It's not about guns but rather your hyper-liberal judicial system that favours (I even spelled it right, eh pals?) the criminal versus the victim. This is far more than my stupid opinion, BTW: my friends on the Vancouver Police Dept. wholeheartedly agree. Most of them actually would like to see legit and trained citizens able to carry "heat" as we can in most US states now, with a spectacular drop in crime. But I know, you Canadians are so much more socially evolved than us Cro-Magnon 'Mur-Kans, right?

And long live the Avro Arrow. Spectacular, but that was in the late '50s. Lately not so much! When "Dief The Chief" killed that, he mostly killed off advanced Canadian Aerospace research. Permanently. They all got good jobs in the US, noteably on the Apollo Program. Your loss because of stupid over-governance! Pi$$d me off no end when I used to try to be proud of Canada.

(I have a model of the Arrow right here in front of me on my desk. A tear rolls down my cheek...).

My orthopedic surgeon in Southern California left Toronto because the government strictly limited his maximum income. It had taken him 16 years to become a specialist and they said, back in about 1982, he was "eligible" for a max of $350k/yr, of which approx 60% would go to taxes.

When he's not performing surgeries he teaches his advanced techniques at UCLA Med School. Again, this is Canada's loss, due specifically to government taxation policies and standardized medicare.

I outlined true and actual problems my family had with specific situations in the Canadian medical system. I add that my father just got out of the hospital again (Eagle Ridge in Coquitlam) after surviving the BC Medical system yet again, barely.

And don't worry: improved medical care is coming to the US, soon. Barama will see to it through the same income re-distribution systems you suffer under up there.

Thanks for your help in Afghanistan, you bet! I also was in the Canadian Army, long range shooting team and all. Best bunch of boys I've ever known, loyal and excellent soldiers, but again, your politics gets in the way of most everything in Canada. I applaud your patriotism; I've just relocated mine, and I'll sit down with you any time and go over it point by point and show you, mostly, where the US is better.

BTW, we're not all Neanderthal, toothless redneck morons as you guys so often paint us. At least I appreciate my good Canadian friends and don't blithely paint them all with the same brush as so many Canadians do of Americans ("They're all SO rude and loud and stupid, aren't they Fred!!!"

Seattle? Great musical and theatre arts community. Asian food not so much but you can always drive to Vancouver for a snack. Great local skiing nearby, and The Cascades and access thereto are amazing. Our wine country in nearby Yakima is also v. v. good and much cheaper than in BC (there's that government again...).

Thx for listening!

[ajau]

I wish that we trusted ourselves enough to allow fellow citizens the right to defend themselves via firearms. Alas, there seems to be a cultural aversion to this in the Anglosphere nations. Its almost as if to "carry heat" would be uncouth and impolite... Vancouver's loss I guess...

[Waterlooson]

Originally Posted by rifleman

Most Canucks have never travelled so don't know anything but what The Global TV channel and Tony Parsons tells them each night. Biased? Nahhhh...

Actually, only an estimated 27% of "Americans" have passports while 40% of Canadians have passports... so I think the pot has called the kettle black on this one. Some countries don't even required Canadians to show a passport on entry... the US and Mexico are two that come to mind - at least when entering by car. So it would appear that most Canadians do travel internationally, while most Americans don't.

But Canadians are far far too obedient to government, and a lot of the snobbery Canucks aim at Yanks is pretty much mis-directed and erroneous. Like the blather about the gun crime rate in our US cities: check out Vancouver for the past two weeks.... full auto firearms battles in the streets.

First, gun related crime is far, far higher in the US vis a vis Canada... and it's rather foolish to try to deny or even downplay that fact. Secondly, I want you to guess where that auto firearm recently used in Vancouver came from... right, your good ol' US of A! Mexico has an even bigger problem with guns coming in from the US.... and it's destroying the country.

BTW: my friends on the Vancouver Police Dept. wholeheartedly agree. Most of them actually would like to see legit and trained citizens able to carry "heat" as we can in most US states now, with a spectacular drop in crime.

Now that claim is largely rubbish! The police in Canada have been saying the exact opposite for decades... they strongly supported gun registration laws that make it totally impractical to own a handgun (if not impossible) and make ownership of even a hunting rifle a pain in Canada. If Canada adopted US gun laws, crime would soar.

But I know, you Canadians are so much more socially evolved than us Cro-Magnon 'Mur-Kans, right?
BTW, we're not all Neanderthal, toothless redneck morons as you guys so often paint us. At least I appreciate my good Canadian friends and don't blithely paint them all with the same brush as so many Canadians do of Americans ("They're all SO rude and loud and stupid, aren't they Fred!!!"

Of course Canadians understand all that... after all, lots of Americans are Democrats - ah, ah... just kidding, couldn't resist.

BTW, I can see why the US is such a moneyed paradise, it continues to spend money it doesn't have ... it just keeps borrowing the funds from its creditors.

Federal obligations exceed world GDP

When that bubble bursts, it won't be pretty.

[Atticman]

I've noticed in this and other threads that many right-wing Canadians seem to favour the U.S. and often end up moving there. There's a good reason for that you know, they want to be with people who are like them.

[Cornerguy1]

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