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Old 10-29-2013, 06:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiblue View Post
So this is rather off topic and responding to a very old post, but for the record:

The vast majority of animals raised for food live pretty horrific lives, in cages or feedlots where they can't walk, turn around, or lie down; bred and drugged so they grow to the point that they can't support their own weight (and are incidentally creating antibiotic-resistant superbugs); then transported to a slaughterhouse where they are frequently butchered, scalded, and/or defeathered while still alive. You don't have to take my word for it, there's plenty of footage available if you decide to not turn a blind eye. So yes, we prefer that these animals not be born at all than be born to an unnaturally abbreviated life of torture, pain, and cruelty.

In what way is using fur, meat, and leather a green way to live? Raising animals for food is incredibly damaging to the environment - animals need to be fed before they grow enough to be killed for you, and they are fed primarily Montsanto's GMO corn and soybeans. This supports soil destroying monoculture, is poorly absorbed by animals who did not evolve to eat corn leading to enormous amounts of waste (have you heard of waste lagoons?) and methane, and is incredibly inefficient in terms of energy and water required to get that bit of meat to you, compared with you just eating plants in the first place. Even "humane" family farms are still environmentally a poor choice, as they can't convert 100% of that food into meat on their bodies that you want to eat - they need to expend energy on breathing, digestion, maintaining bodily functions, etc. It is always more inefficient to feed a vegetable to a cow and then eat the cow than it is to just eat the vegetable yourself.

You could not kill anything to eat it, so don't let animals be killed for you - grains, berries and vegetables are pretty great. I don't actually eat so many berries, but maybe try this jambalaya! It's pretty great. Veggie Jambalaya Recipes

And on topic, I could not seriously date a meat eater. It's not about meat in my house, I just couldn't have a serious relationship with someone who thought it was ok to eat animals. Don't worry, OngletNYC, we don't want to date you either.
I was just curious as to which part of the country did you visit the farms that raise livestock? And also what farms raise food for the livestock and what farms raise food for direct human consumption.
Thanks.
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Old 01-01-2014, 04:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
Not specifically true. For instance try feeding yourself grasses, hay, alfalfa, silage, etc. and tell me how far you get with that.

But you're ok with the fact that the person is either too ambivalent or ignorant to realize that animals die no matter what type of diet they choose? It's ok for 1,000 little fuzzy critters to die in the combine that cultivates and harvests vegetables, just as long as they don't get eaten by anyone. Brilliant.

You are correct, I was using the term "vegetable" in the culinary sense, meaning an edible (to humans) plant, not in the biological sense which would include those sorts of grasses, as well as trees, brush, and other vegetation that is edible to other species, and I apologize for that ambiguity. But as user_id points out, the percentage of animals raised for food that are grass fed is miniscule. Hard data on how many grass-fed cattle are raised is hard to find, as grist.org says: "No one keeps reliable statistics on the production of the grass-fed beef. One agricultural consultant estimates that in 2009, grass-fed netted $380 million — or 0.005 percent of the total U.S. beef industry."

Even if that estimate were off by several orders of magnitude, there is no uncertainty that the vast majority of animals currently raised for food - at least in the United States, and in most of the developed world - are in Concentrated Animal Feed Operations and are fed primarily grains, specifically corn and soybeans. This is the inefficiency to which I refer, and precisely what would address your second point - eating animals requires more vegetables to be harvested, not fewer. It takes more corn to feed a cow to feed a person than it would take corn to feed a person. Eliminate the inefficient animal middleman means less crops, less harvesting. So to be vegan not only saves factory farmed animals, it also saves the fuzzy critters in the combine.

Animals die no matter what diet you choose, there's no way around that. That's nature, and that's not warm and fuzzy. But you have a choice - it's up to you how many, and how cruelly they suffer before they die.
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:00 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastelito de limon View Post
I've considered trying out vegetarianism, because I don't care for the meat industry practices. But the husband is not giving up meat any time soon (although we're aiming to try a vegetarian diet week per month). That being the case, I'm not giving up meat because even if I did, our income is still being spent on it via hubby. I love meat...I don't want to give it up unless there is a financial impact on the companies selling it, which there wouldn't be. Not to mention the cat and dog are obligate carnivores...
But if you didn't eat meat, even if hubby still did you'd only buy half as much, right? So that is a financial impact on the companies selling it, for sure - that's half as much as you used to buy! That's a lot! A vegetarian diet one week per month is awesome, I hope you're enjoying it. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good - every little bit counts.
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ7 View Post
so you all must hate your forefathers and relatives...how coquettish are you?

judging others for the way they eat and being so closed minded as to pigeon hole yourselves into a...forget it, do what you want, just stay in your closed little world...youll be better off there, for everyones sake
Coquettish? I'm not sure that word means what you think it means. I disagree with a lot of my relatives about a lot of things, which isn't so unusual. I've no illusions about the evolution of the human species, if that's what you mean. Humans are not obligate carnivores.

Maybe pigeon hole is a pun? This thread is specifically aimed at vegans/vegetarians, so we are in fact hanging out in our own little world, but you are welcome to join at any time!
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:31 AM
 
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I haven't eaten meat in years. The first time I was served those Gardein beef tips (which are vegan) they reminded me so much of real beef I almost couldn't eat them-lol.

I don't think I could date a meat eater. I'm too weird for most in other ways too.
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ7 View Post
many species wouldnt even exist if it werent for our love to eat them...animal ethics aside, veganism is something new to the world only because people are softer, put a group of vegans in a cold climate and see what would happen. theres a reason your forefathers were not vegans, its not that they were too stupid or clueless about growing enough plant foods, it was due to one thing, nutritional fact. if it works for you great, but dont go hating on others because they dont follow your way of life, live and let live.
Vegetarianism has existed for over 2500 years, as recorded by ancient Greeks and Hindus - it is hardly new. Many modern Hindus come from a long line of vegetarian forefathers (and mothers), none of whom were "soft". There is certainly a good deal of variation in the ability of civilizations throughout history to obtain all the nutrients they need from plants, however in our current society there are very few populations that are incapable of thriving on a vegetarian or vegan diet. Many people who could easily survive on a plant based diet have their own reasons to not be vegetarian; I would only wish you would follow your own advice to live and let live, but apply that to all sentient beings.
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man View Post
I was just curious as to which part of the country did you visit the farms that raise livestock? And also what farms raise food for the livestock and what farms raise food for direct human consumption.
Thanks.
I have had the opportunity to visit one Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation in Wisconsin as well as several in Iowa - one cow and three pig feedlots. CAFOs for cows and pigs are very concentrated in the Plains states of Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, and neighboring regions. The farms that raise food for the livestock are concentrated in the same areas: almost half the corn grown in the United States is used for livestock feed, soybeans are primarily pressed for oil and the remaining mass is used as feed as well. The seemingly infinite fields of corn and soybeans you see when driving through this region are almost entirely used for feed or industrial purposes (including food processing like high fructose corn syrup or soybean oil), very very little of them go directly for human consumption in an unprocessed state. The farms that grow the majority of the food you would see unprocessed, either fresh or frozen (fruits, greens, nuts), tend to be in California where you also see major industrial dairy and chicken operations. Due to advances in machinery and corresponding economies of scale small local farms have been drastically reduced, with the number of individual farms in the United States decreasing from almost 6.5 million a hundred years ago to 2.2 million now, concentrating the majority of food production in a much smaller number of much, much larger commercial operations.

These giant monolithic operations is where the vast majority of food in the American supply comes from, but of course there are many more small farms that do wonderful work. I live in New York City but participate in a Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) program where I pay a sum upfront to a local Long Island farm and then receive a share of their vegetable harvest each week of their growing season, June - November. They're a small organic farm that you can visit and see where your food comes from and meet the people that grow it. I tend to eat the summery stuff, the really ripe tomatoes and corn and basil, right away, and cook and freeze or can the squashes and roots and greens cabbage and broccoli and eat that all winter long. I like it. It's not for everybody.

I digress. I hope I answered your question!
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Old 01-12-2014, 06:32 PM
 
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Yes, I would date and marry a meat eater. I wouldn't buy it or cook it for him, though. There are so many issues in this world that concern me, this difference between the two of us wouldn't stop me from getting to know him.
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Old 01-12-2014, 06:36 PM
 
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Considering I was an omnivore for the first three years of our relationship, and it has been more than three years since I stopped eating meat, I guess so! But, like Molli, I wouldn't cook it for him or buy it in a grocery store. If he wants to order it when it's my turn to pick up the tab at a restaurant, that's fine, though.
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Old 01-12-2014, 06:38 PM
 
781 posts, read 736,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noela View Post
One individual can't change the world, for sure, but if you think the meat industry should stop killing animals (which is, I suppose, why you would NOT eat meat if it made a difference), but let's put it this way: wouldn't it be more in tune with your own ethics, feelings or thoughts not to help them profit (no matter how small your contribution right now) from those dead animals? It would made a huge difference in your life and in the life of those around you. Even by reducing your monthly animal intake you're helping change something.

As for why we're vegetarians/vegans, in my case it's as much "feeling sorry" (although compassion and empathy are extremely important emotions, IMO) as it is considering the logics of speciesism to be fundamentally flawed. So it's an emotional and a rational lifestyle choice. I know it sounds weird or extremist but it's not. If you're interested in philosophy, law, animal rights, fundamental ethics, etc, there are books by Evelyn Pluhar, Tom Regan, Gary Francione, Peter Singer, Steve Sapontzis and Joan Dunayer that might be worth looking into.
I'm not a vegan, and am not going to be, and I swear I'm not trolling on this. I'm honestly just curious. If it bothers you to see humans eating an animal, does it bother you to see animals eating other animals? (Like on nature documentaries, etc, etc. ) And why not if it doesn't?
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