Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No. Vegans just get off on spouting nonsense. I'm all for a more ethical treatment of the animals we kill for food, but this moralistic standpoint is just feel good nonsense. My parents grew up in a small rural village deep in the Andes. There wasn't much diversity in the crops they could grow due to the altitude and lack of land suitable for certain crops, so they used the less arable land as pasture for a variety of animals as well as the weeds as food for guinea pigs (a popular, cheap source of meat in the Andes,) and other animals. There is no vegan alive that is moralistically superior to people like my parents simply because they don't eat meat.
Contrary to what vegans will have you believe, we are omnivores by nature and in fact we owe the development of our huge brains to the fact that our ancestors ate cooked meat. Since our bodies are not meant for it, rather than wasting time being a Vegan (or vegetarian for that matter,) people should focus on supporting small, local farms, where animals are treated ethically and tons of meat aren't wasted. The biggest immorality of meat eaters is not that they eat meat, it's how much meat they waste after an animal is killed.
Last edited by Astorian31; 04-10-2013 at 11:03 PM..
There is a lot more to morality than being vegan. I know a guy who is vegan but not very moral. He was fired from the company where he worked for stealing. Charges were not pressed because he returned the merchandise. He has gotten tickets for drunk driving. His girlfriend left him because he was verbally abusive and treated her badly.
He simply was not a very nice person. I wouldn't call him a moral person but he is a vegan and believes in kindness to animals. Too bad that kindess doesn't extend to people but there you are. He wouldn't hurt a fly but other humans are a different story.
Hmm...many certainly do act like it. But they do sacrifice a lot to live in value with their own personal beliefs which I always feel is admirable.
From certain Buddhist perspectives, where killing any sentient being is wrong, it is obviously morally superior. But if that's not your personal belief, then it shouldn't matter. Humans have evolved to be omnivores. That's just how it is.
I was actually one of those snotty nosed teenage vegetarians, but never completely vegan. I probably came off as self-righteous, but it wasn't because I thought I was better than other people. It was because I seriously hurt for all the animals in factory farms and factory slaughterhouses that are basically being tortured, and I was seriously upset that most people weren't as concerned. Especially when so many people had really sarcastic, rude comebacks when I politely told them I didn't eat meat in the least offensive, self-righteous ways possible.
However, I also was not very healthy. I read a lot stuff that was basically vegan propaganda...that humans don't need animal products to survive and thrive. Then I started reading actual science and changed my opinion and I feel so much better physically now that I eat meat.
I like Anthony Bourdain's take on the issue. I feel we are all too far removed from the food we eat and that is part of the problem. I also kind of think that if a person isn't willing to kill their own food, they really need to rethink what they are doing. We all live in cushy environments in most of the United States, far removed from so much suffering that is in the world. We need to be more aware of how our everyday actions affect the economy and other creatures and take action to stop suffering, at least sometimes!
I guess I will add: if you truly believe that humans do not need to eat animals and animal products to be healthy, as most vegans do, it does become a morally superior thing to do. If humans didn't need to eat animals, then eating them would be a little wanton, right? You are killing a creature for a purely selfish reason: because you like the taste of them, even though you could survive just fine without unnecessary killing.
Last edited by soanchorless; 04-11-2013 at 09:34 AM..
They are alive, but if you can live without meat, you still have to eat something. And plants are not sentient beings either, so that sets them into another category. And technically, there are plenty of perennials, nuts, and fruits that people could eat without killing a plant.
Raising crops requires wildlife habitat be destroyed, farmers will kill animals destroying their crops, etc. So a vegan diet still kills animals, it's just more indirect. It's also not entirely accurate that plants are "stupid" or entirely passive. There is more and more research showing plants communicate, respond to stimuli, etc. I'm not sure you can say plants feel pain, but I'm not sure I'd entirely rule out a plant equivalent. There's still a lot to learn about plants.
Raising crops requires wildlife habitat be destroyed, farmers will kill animals destroying their crops, etc. So a vegan diet still kills animals, it's just more indirect. It's also not entirely accurate that plants are "stupid" or entirely passive. There is more and more research showing plants communicate, respond to stimuli, etc. I'm not sure you can say plants feel pain, but I'm not sure I'd entirely rule out a plant equivalent. There's still a lot to learn about plants.
While I am completely unconcerned by the potential suffering of plant life, your first statement hit the nail on the head. Animals die so that crops can be harvested -- through the loss of habitat, or more gruesomely by being whisked up in the harvester and mangled. And this is no small number. In sheer numbers, probably more animals die to support crops than are purposely raised for slaughter. By weight, not so much.
The vegans who choose their lifestyle so that they can feel morally superior are naive. Our existence -- each and every one of us -- means that many other living things must die so that we can live. We can either take a "thank you" attitude and move on, or we can whinge on about it.
Morally superior? Not a chance. Needing a lesson in the food chain? Absolutely. Sorry, Bucky, we aren't the only animals who eat other animals. We just do it more efficiently. And we have BBQ sauce.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
