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Nita--not sure who among you is Nita--in your rep you said "I think it is important for all of us to realize, there are many ways to eat healthy and no one diet guarantees proper nutritian."
Not sure why you think that this is necessary on a Vegetarian and Vegan subforum. I see omnivores coming here and talking about the alleged glories of their diets to be on the level of a Christian going to the Atheism and Agnosticism subforum and talking about Jesus. I, for one, don't care whether it's possible to have a healthy, nutritious diet that just happens to include meat any more than I care whether my next-door neighbor goes to church every Sunday.
But when people get up here and start spouting what basically amounts to personal preference as "fact" and trying to make a case for their way of doing things, well, that's proselytizing. And no, I don't have to welcome that. You don't see me going to the general Food forum or the Health forum telling omnivores they must acknowledge and accept my way of doing things any more than you see me on the Christianity forum telling people there I think they're superstitious.
If you want to talk about an omnivorous diet, or even weigh it against vegetarianism/veganism, the more appropriate place for that would be the Health forum, or perhaps the general Food forum. Right now, you're just trying to push your own agenda on vegetarians and vegans, on a subforum devoted to vegetarian and veganism. As others upthread have noted, it makes no sense.
wow, this might be a first: someone reps you because they agree with one thing you say and you get blasted for agreeing. I simply commented on your posting: #49, when you said just because a meal is vegetarian doesn't always mean healthy and though, I may not always agree with anyone, I did agree with you, so I repped you. Oh well.
As for those who post on this sub forum, this could be said about people who are vegans or vegetarians posting on other threads, one thing that makes City Data so informative as well as entertaining is, the freedom to voice our opinions. I do not think the OP intended this subject to be discussed only by those who agree with the school policy, but as a interesting debate topic.
BTW, maybe you do not post on the Christianity sub forum, which BTW has nothing to do with this, but plenty who are not Christians do. I have never take offense to that. Oh well, I shall refrain from posting or reading the vegetarian sub forum: end of story, ok? And remind to think before I rep someone I normally do not agree with again.. I certainly never thought a rep would start an all out war...sorry!!!
I'm a vegeterian for ethical reasons. Not trying to start any debate here, just stating my personal opinion because it's an interesting topic.
I think it's great to teach children that there are wonderful vegetarian options. In the real world, I get so many comments like "what do you eat?" and "how do you survive without meat?" So many people don't realize that there are many delicious vegetarian/vegan meals, and that the best vegetarian meals are not made from mock meat but whole foods like beans, lentils, eggplant, squash, quinoa, avocados, etc.
So while I think it's great to inform children that there are tasty meals that don't include meat, that you don't need meat for every single meal of the day, and about the unethical practices of factory farming..I'm not sure if I'm in agreement with the whole lunch menu being vegetarian. Maybe this is my socially libertarian side coming out, but I believe we need to value other peoples opinons and choices. Having a complete vegetarian menu takes away the choice for people who prefer to eat meat, just like having a complete meat menu takes away the choice for vegetarians.
What I believe is even more important is health. Rather than promoting an entire school to go vegetarian, how about just promoting healthier school lunches with choices that cater to all people's diets? Get rid of the pizza, french fries, hamburgers, sugary drinks and serve wholesome meats, healthy vegetarian options, fresh fruits and veggies, dairy free options, gluten free options, options for children with nut and peanut allergies. Have a healthy, tasty menu with meal choices for everybody whether your child is a meat eater, vegetarian, has a gluten intolerance, is lactose intolerant, has a nut allergy, etc. To me that matters more.
As for those who post on this sub forum, this could be said about people who are vegans or vegetarians posting on other threads, one thing that makes City Data so informative as well as entertaining is, the freedom to voice our opinions. I do not think the OP intended this subject to be discussed only by those who agree with the school policy, but as a interesting debate topic.
Actually, if you'll read post #60, I said that as the original poster, I was NOT looking for a debate. That's why I posted in this forum and not under Great Debates. Just wanted to celebrate with my fellow veggie people!
wow, this might be a first: someone reps you because they agree with one thing you say and you get blasted for agreeing. I simply commented on your posting: #49, when you said just because a meal is vegetarian doesn't always mean healthy and though, I may not always agree with anyone, I did agree with you, so I repped you. Oh well.
As for those who post on this sub forum, this could be said about people who are vegans or vegetarians posting on other threads, one thing that makes City Data so informative as well as entertaining is, the freedom to voice our opinions. I do not think the OP intended this subject to be discussed only by those who agree with the school policy, but as a interesting debate topic.
BTW, maybe you do not post on the Christianity sub forum, which BTW has nothing to do with this, but plenty who are not Christians do. I have never take offense to that. Oh well, I shall refrain from posting or reading the vegetarian sub forum: end of story, ok? And remind to think before I rep someone I normally do not agree with again.. I certainly never thought a rep would start an all out war...sorry!!!
Ah, okay. I see now, NMNita. D'OH!
No war here. It sounded like you were trying to say everyone should acknowledge that it's possible to have a healthy diet that includes meat, and my response was basically, "Yeah, well, tell it to omnivores."
Me, personally, I think it rude for anyone to go and preach to those whose way of life differs, whether it's omnivores coming here, veggies going there, Christians going to atheism and agnosticism, or atheists and agnostics going to Christian boards. It does seem to me that when people come to a subforum dedicated to subject A to discuss subject B, when subject B is in opposition to subject A, there is an underlying tone of criticism or desire to persuade. I can only speak for myself, but if I want to debate the merits of something, I'd go to a general forum, not raid a dedicated subforum. If I wanted to learn about something, I'd lurk and then ask questions about the specific topic, not make declarations about what my way is and how my way counts, too. And I certainly don't feel it's my place to go to another board and grant my acknowledgment. It's patronizing.
So, you didn't like it when it was done to you when it didn't fit your preferences, but are all for it being done to others whose preferences it doesn't meet if it fosters your preferences?
"Healthy" does not require "vegetarian" - in fact, for some people (myself included, and, yes, I've tried a very balanced vegetarian diet a couple of times - made me sick as a dog, because my genetics are not your genetics and my genetics requires meat in my diet -
I am going to repeat what I said about genetics here, regardless of any posts being removed, because the very thought that genetics have anything to do with this is preposterous and I wouldn't want anyone who might be reading to think that it's remotely scientifically acceptable to make such a declaration. The fact is that DNA has absolutely NO bearing on this whatsoever, and any reputable physician, researcher, or geneticist will tell you that.
What do YOUR ethics have to do with what others teach their children? Your kidding me right? You of all people shouldn't be using the term ethics in any aspect of your life.
My son eats healthy and he chooses to eat what he likes, some is veggie and some is not, so be it.
Forcing YOUR viewpoints and YOUR way of life on any child is wrong, you need to educate and raise your child, not dictate what they will and will not eat. If your a good parent your children will see what is right and wrong and will build their own base in life in which they will learn their personal ethics.
If your not, then they will learn from you and become the same people you are...
Another omnivore, I see.
Hate to break it to you, but viewpoints are forced on children every day at school, and meat-eating at lunch is not a civil right.
Kids are legally allowed to dress as they want. In school, they are not allowed to wear t-shirts with profanity or have their butts hanging out of daisy dukes, even if their parents allow it at home.
Kids are legally allowed to say what they wish. In school, they are not allowed to sass their teachers by saying what they want, when they want, even if their parents allow it at home.
If the school can determine what is acceptable to wear and to say, regardless of what a kid's rights are outside of its hallways and what a kid's parents allow, why should this be any different? If anything, there is more leniency here, because the kids are free to bring lunch with them. Likewise, high school seniors with cars can drive off to McDonald's if they want.
This hysteria over one meal is ridiculous. There is no law saying that a school must provide meat, only a certain calorie amount.
Some kid is complaining that she doesn't get FOUR meatballs at lunch. Really? In what world should anyone eat FOUR meatballs in one meal? Not even in an omnivore's world is this nutritionally acceptable. Or, it shouldn't be. Really, this is why so many kids, indeed so many Americans, are fat!
I really think all of this complaining is because parents aren't doing their jobs by teaching their children how to eat properly, aren't providing appropriate food themselves, don't want to spend the money on meat themselves, and expect the school cafeteria to be the primary venue of sustenance for their kids. The Department of Agriculture's rules stipulate that when lunches are offered, they must comprise one-third of the average caloric needs for kids--which comes to roughly 800-850 calories at lunch for the average kid--and meet nutritional requirements for health in terms of vitamins and minerals. That's all. There's no mandate for meat, and it's up to the parents to ensure their kids get the other two-thirds of calories. If your kid is a linebacker, your kid can buy another entree or you can send your kid to school with a sandwich to supplement the lunch.
Which is as it should be. If parents are that concerned about their kids' nutrition, they should be providing it and not relying on the school to provide it. That's part of parenting.
And again, if you want your kids to eat meat, you are perfectly free to cook it for them at home.
.I'm not sure if I'm in agreement with the whole lunch menu being vegetarian. Maybe this is my socially libertarian side coming out, but I believe we need to value other peoples opinons and choices. Having a complete vegetarian menu takes away the choice for people who prefer to eat meat, just like having a complete meat menu takes away the choice for vegetarians.
Then you should also have a problem with the current system as all sorts of foods are missing that some kids may prefer to eat. School lunches shouldn't be based on what kids prefer to eat or even what the parents prefer to eat, there are far too many food preferences and schools should be serving healthy foods and most American adults are clueless about nutrition.
A vegetarian menu, contrary to "taking away choices", makes healthy school lunches available to a multicultural student body at low costs. Its food that everyone can enjoy, not just kids from meat eating households.
Actually, if you'll read post #60, I said that as the original poster, I was NOT looking for a debate. That's why I posted in this forum and not under Great Debates. Just wanted to celebrate with my fellow veggie people!
I understand what you are saying, but you also have to realize, when you post on an open forum you will get debates. That is part of what this is about in my opinion. BTW, this probably wouldn't have been the same if you had posted under great debates. Those of us who have been debating you on the issue started before your posted #90. Had you said, in the beginning, what your intentions were I know, I for one, would not have entered into the discussion.
I understand what you are saying, but you also have to realize, when you post on an open forum you will get debates. That is part of what this is about in my opinion. BTW, this probably wouldn't have been the same if you had posted under great debates. Those of us who have been debating you on the issue started before your posted #90. Had you said, in the beginning, what your intentions were I know, I for one, would not have entered into the discussion.
I see your point. I did say that I wonder what the parents thought. But I just wanted to talk among fellow veg*ns. We can be so isolated. Always the minority. And nonveggie people are so quick to ridicule us. I posted a while ago on here about going to a Meetup at an Indian restaurant. All I said was (just to make conversation) that I love Indian food and that Indian restaurants saved my life when I was in Belgium because they were the only restaurants that had veggie options. A woman at the table started to question me, "Why are you a vegetarian? Don't you even eat fish?" When I said no, she said, "But there's lots of fish in the ocean!" (Which has nothing to do with being an ethical veg*n and has the woman never heard of overfishing?)
So I looked at this forum as my safe place. I never imagined that what we talked about would be of interest to any non-veg*n.
I understand what you are saying, but you also have to realize, when you post on an open forum you will get debates. That is part of what this is about in my opinion. BTW, this probably wouldn't have been the same if you had posted under great debates. Those of us who have been debating you on the issue started before your posted #90. Had you said, in the beginning, what your intentions were I know, I for one, would not have entered into the discussion.
Maybe you should consider what you just said about Great Debates: If it wasn't in Great Debates, then obviously it wasn't meant for debate, was it?
It seems pretty obvious to me that the OP meant to share the link so veggies could high-five it.
In the meantime, I'm going to ask about the intention of this subforum. My understanding is that this ISN'T an open forum any more than the Atheism and Agnosticism forum is. My understanding is that this is a subforum for vegetarians and vegans to discuss vegetarianism and veganism, and to answer genuine questions, not to defend our viewpoints from meat-eaters. I could be wrong, but if I am not and that is the case, then maybe we need a "no proselytization" sticky like A&A has.
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your children will see what is right and wrong and will build their own base in life in which they will learn their personal ethics.
