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I don't think it's with the veganism itself, rather with the vegans. Vegans have a reputation of being pretentious and snobby, and vegan restaurants themselves don't help. Many vegan restaurants in New York charge something like $7 for a smoothie and offer really small portions for incredibly high prices, turning people away
That's anything. Just look at a restaurant menu in general. One salad meal will cost as much as an entree that comes with the meat protein, 2 sides and an appetizer.
But I agree, the vegans themselves are largely to blame. When they hear I like to hunt, it can get really bad.
That's anything. Just look at a restaurant menu in general. One salad meal will cost as much as an entree that comes with the meat protein, 2 sides and an appetizer.
But I agree, the vegans themselves are largely to blame. When they hear I like to hunt, it can get really bad.
I'm not vegan anymore (I was for almost seven years, now vegetarian for the last four months for very personal reasons), but when I was I once did some animal rights activism on my own at a private college. I had a table set up in the student union (with legal permission) with some leaflets, posters, books, and free information etc. A young man came up to me and we started talking, and he told me he was a hunter. He hunted most of the meat he ate. I was not put off as a vegan at that time. Instead, we had the most awesome civil conversation and came to an agreement at least in that we were both against factory farming and large scale animal farming (as opposed to small scale private/family etc). I could understand his point of view to an extent. He also ate five of the mini vegan muffins I made lol.
I was not the pushy in your face type (except maybe to family lol), and would usually just allow people to come to my table without the need to shout over at them. I had participated in animal rights rallies and group activism in Minneapolis and was put off by some of the aggressiveness and awful judgment among other vegans. I saw a LOT of this on some larger vegan animal rights types of forums on Facebook and other forums as well. Even other vegans were being attacked for not being vegan enough (ie using palm oil, buying from companies that also sell nonvegan items, living with an omni, feeding your pet meat and other issues). But I faced a lot of crap from nonvegans too questioning my choices and telling me how unhealthy I would be without me initiating anything more than turning down a food item because I said I was vegan. One woman at work asked me what was wrong with meat and started yelling at me, because I politely turned down an offer for her food at a work potluck. It was actually me who said it was an inappropriate time and place to discuss but I would be happy to discuss with you later if you really want to know.
In fact I find it harder to be vegetarian now because I get it from both directions lol. I am VERY quiet about my lifestyle and food choices now in real life, but because I was known for so long as the radical vegan, people have asked me why I am no longer vegan and it can be awkward. Much of my reasoning has to do with very personal struggles I don't like to talk freely about (no it has nothing to do with any particular nutritional deficiency none of which I had). I had thought about making the transition from vegan to vegetarian during my last year as a vegan, and I think the awful judgment and self righteousness I saw in some other vegans (and was beginning to see in myself when I was around family) was the final push in making that transition. But I probably would have transitioned away regardless because my philosophy and beliefs about life, and my needs and desires have changed. I know I keep coming back to this thread but it's been a huge change for me over the last year. I "see" a lot of things on the outside now that I didn't see as much on the inside. I still have some great vegan friends who are not pushy at all, and at least a few who have been happily vegan for over two decades. Sadly I also lost a few who couldn't handle my transition.
The idea that you NEED meat for protein is absolutely NOT true. It's what the meat industry has been feeding (pun intended) the American public for years. It's just not true.
They do? I've never heard that being said by industry spokespeople. I'm pretty sure they say that meat is an excellent source of high quality protein, which it is. It's also the easiest way to ingest a complete protein and the only natural, non-supplemental food source of certain essential vitamins (full D complex and B12, for example).
Lately, I've noticed some people are taking a Netflix 'documentary' at face value and then commencing on a proselytizing mission to force all to 'see the light'. And in such a sanctimonious fashion this time, no less. Does anyone question anymore what they are being told, without even vetting the sources?
Fwiw I am a live and let live type - vegetarians and vegans can eat whatever they wish, whenever they wish. And so can everyone else as far as I'm concerned. And I do all that without belittling someone's choices or beliefs. Or calling them a goofball.
They do? I've never heard that being said by industry spokespeople. I'm pretty sure they say that meat is an excellent source of high quality protein, which it is. It's also the easiest way to ingest a complete protein and the only natural, non-supplemental food source of certain essential vitamins (full D complex and B12, for example).
For the record, some dairy products contain significant amounts of B12 (for example, cottage cheese and plain yogurt can contain anywhere from 20-60% natural B12 per cup depending on the brand and how its made), and eggs also provide small amounts of B12, about 18% per egg. Egg yolks provide about 10% of natural vitamin D per egg, though it can vary depending on the diet of the chicken.
And of course, sunshine can provide significant vitamin D depending on where you live and the time of year, and how well an individual person absorbs it through sunshine.
There are also some plant foods that contain all nine essential amino acids all by themselves, such as quinoa, chia seeds, and soybeans.
They do? I've never heard that being said by industry spokespeople. I'm pretty sure they say that meat is an excellent source of high quality protein, which it is. It's also the easiest way to ingest a complete protein and the only natural, non-supplemental food source of certain essential vitamins (full D complex and B12, for example).
Meat is an excellent source of protein. As retired nutritional I have a fair idea on what we need and do not need in our diet. Yes, one can get protein from many sources other than meat, but it isn't easy to get enough. For those who want to remain meatless that is fine, but they do need to have it pointed out, you can't believe everything you read or see on TV and it is wiser to not lecture others on what they eat or do not eat. You and I know this, some. who have an agenda to push just can't understand not everyone agree with them. Those of us who do not, are not stupid, bad, or uneducated.
Meat is an excellent source of protein. As retired nutritional I have a fair idea on what we need and do not need in our diet. Yes, one can get protein from many sources other than meat, but it isn't easy to get enough. For those who want to remain meatless that is fine, but they do need to have it pointed out, you can't believe everything you read or see on TV and it is wiser to not lecture others on what they eat or do not eat. You and I know this, some. who have an agenda to push just can't understand not everyone agree with them. Those of us who do not, are not stupid, bad, or uneducated.
It isn't easy to get enough protein without meat? Absolutely NOT true.
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For the record, some dairy products contain significant amounts of B12 (for example, cottage cheese and plain yogurt can contain anywhere from 20-60% natural B12 per cup depending on the brand and how its made), and eggs also provide small amounts of B12, about 18% per egg. Egg yolks provide about 10% of natural vitamin D per egg, though it can vary depending on the diet of the chicken.
That wouldn't necessarily be vegan, now. Would it? Meat is still the most reliable source, regardless.
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And of course, sunshine can provide significant vitamin D depending on where you live and the time of year, and how well an individual person absorbs it through sunshine.
And, it also requires you to be in it. My friend in Miami had extremely low levels due to his office-based profession. It was nothing a few extra ounces of salmon or liver per day couldn't fix.
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There are also some plant foods that contain all nine essential amino acids all by themselves, such as quinoa, chia seeds, and soybeans.
That's fine. But, all meat has them in abundance and the quantity you would need to ingest is less. For instance, I would have to eat 4 cups of cooked quinoa to get the equivalent of 3 oz. of lean beef.
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Originally Posted by ElleTea
It isn't easy to get enough protein without meat? Absolutely NOT true.
Eating a small amount of meat is the easiest way to ingest complete protein. The vast majority of plants don't have all of the essential amino acids required. They need to be combined. This is where many people who adopt a vegan diet falter.
That wouldn't necessarily be vegan, now. Would it? Meat is still the most reliable source, regardless.
And, it also requires you to be in it. My friend in Miami had extremely low levels due to his office-based profession. It was nothing a few extra ounces of salmon or liver per day couldn't fix.
That's fine. But, all meat has them in abundance and the quantity you would need to ingest is less. For instance, I would have to eat 4 cups of cooked quinoa to get the equivalent of 3 oz. of lean beef.
Eating a small amount of meat is the easiest way to ingest complete protein. The vast majority of plants don't have all of the essential amino acids required. They need to be combined. This is where many people who adopt a vegan diet falter.
I am not really sure who you are trying to convince on the vegetarian and vegan forum with this information?
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But the whole idea of "complete protein" has been debunked for ages. Most Americans are on a serious protein overload, in fact.
I think the reason people are against veganism is that just hearing about it makes them feel deprived. "No bacon? No steak? No four eggs sweating real butter every morning with 2 sides of sausage???? Egad! I'd just die!"
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