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Old 06-04-2019, 01:57 PM
 
9,480 posts, read 12,367,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle2O19 View Post
So what is the solution? cook with water? Tomato sauce?

Or use a copper chef pan lol

Seriously do we even need oils at all? Or is it like salt, a necessity for some of us because it ads so much flavor. I can’t eat without salt, I never tried oil.
A lot of people use veggie broth instead of oil
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Old 06-04-2019, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Up on the bluff above the lake
1,280 posts, read 688,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElleTea View Post
A lot of people use veggie broth instead of oil
Yes veggie broth, water, beer, wine, some thin juices, whatever lends the proper flavor profile. Sometimes items like onions, peppers, or mushrooms need nothing to saute, IF you are going to add a liquid in later, as this will pick up any frond you created by dry sauteing.
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Old 06-06-2019, 01:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
Oddly, canola oil seems to have harmless and even beneficial properties based on several studies I've read. It doesn't seem to cause the same negative results as olive oil from a test called flow mediated dilation.

This is interesting. The last time I heard anything about canola oil, it was in an article pointing out that no sort of systematic testing has EVER been done to determine whether rapeseed or canola oil is good, bad or indifferent for you. I'm glad to hear someone may be catching up on that undone work.

"Steam frying" (using water instead of oil in the sauté pan) is a time-honored way of not using the oil at all so you don't need to choose between peanut and canola, lard vs. tallow, and so forth.

The usual problem with olive oil is that people want to use it for cooking, when it much better used raw and undamaged by heat. Of course it always tastes faintly of olives, so bleagh.
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Northern California
4,857 posts, read 3,129,013 times
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Default the perfect is the enemy of the good

If you're not eating meat, butter, etc. you've already gotten rid of the worst offenders.
Why worry about using a little oil to fry veggies?
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Old 06-09-2019, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Up on the bluff above the lake
1,280 posts, read 688,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW4me View Post
If you're not eating meat, butter, etc. you've already gotten rid of the worst offenders.
Why worry about using a little oil to fry veggies?
Because oil slows the blood flow through the arteries, the oxidative factors of oil causes inflammation, and inflammation is the path to heart disease, and heart disease promotes heart attacks, and strokes.
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Old 06-09-2019, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,813 posts, read 32,711,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellacatahoula View Post
Good cholesterol numbers are no guarantee of optimal health.
Approximately 50% of people who have heart attacks have normal cholesterol levels. It all starts inside your arteries, and oil is not good for your artery health.
I completely agree with this. I think the day will come, if it hasn't already, that a test will prove that cholesterol in the blood isn't any kind of indicator that a person will get heart disease, etc. Since statins are supposedly the most highly prescribed medicine in the world, there will sure be a lot of resistance to getting that info out to the general public.

But, I quit taking statins and other medications like high blood pressure medications when I went vegan - just cold turkey at the same time. I then followed the McDougall starch-based, whole food, plant based, no oil diet for a year and a half, only cheating on 3 meals by eating grilled shrimp once, and I think falafels (vegan but fried) twice. I just remember that I cheated 3 times, but no lard or red meat or chicken even.

Anyway, my total cholesterol levels have remained pretty much the same, fluctuating up and down, but my total cholesterol is now about where it was when I started this. My "good cholesterol" has increased and my "bad cholesterol" has decreased, as has my total triglycerides, but my total cholesterol is still 269, which is in fact 2 points higher than it was when I started.

Now, McDougall would say I was definitely eating some oil in something. Nope.

Here are my actual numbers, if you want to look at the chart. I became vegan about mid-August, 2017 and had quit all oil, too, by September 1, 2017. So, the first test results you will see is me on statins, the rest are my numbers without statins and on the McDougall diet until my last test in April of this year, after 1 and 1/2 years of the McDougall diet:

http://prntscr.com/nzoc09

There are blood tests every few months at first, because I wanted to see how my diet affected my cholesterol levels at first and my doctor was pressuring me to go back on statins and I kept telling her, let's test again in a few months...

My body is making this cholesterol. None of it is from eating animal products of any kind, including honey, and without consuming oils. I have no heart disease and it doesn't run in my family. Our bodies make cholesterol because it needs it. Statins stop our bodies from making cholesterol. I just can't see that this is a good idea. I wonder if the increasing numbers of Altzheimer's is due to people taking statins.

I feel really healthy and I eat great, healthy food. I am living proof that cholesterol levels may not come down significantly eating this diet. Maybe the better ratio of HDL and LDL and lower triglycerides matter, but I'm just no longer sold on the whole high cholesterol equalling higher chances of heart disease at all.

So, I have actually started eating the occasional boiled shrimp in my vegan wonton soup at home, or eating the occasional boiled egg and I now pop popcorn in oil for a snack and I'm just not going to worry about that. We'll see what my blood tests look like next year after adding these back into my diet.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellacatahoula View Post
Because oil slows the blood flow through the arteries, the oxidative factors of oil causes inflammation, and inflammation is the path to heart disease, and heart disease promotes heart attacks, and strokes.


But you can use any oil that's solid at room temperature to fry without all the oxidation. Most people mistakenly think any fat that's solid at room temperature is the Devil.
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Up on the bluff above the lake
1,280 posts, read 688,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffie View Post
But you can use any oil that's solid at room temperature to fry without all the oxidation. Most people mistakenly think any fat that's solid at room temperature is the Devil.
True, but solidified oil of any kind is typically very high in saturated fat. I'm a fortunate survivor of a bad heart attack, that once believed like you that oil is not bad. I now try to consume no processed oil. Instead I opt for olives, avocados and nuts, albeit sparingly. Heart disease can be reversed but not with the use of oil.
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:25 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,198 posts, read 673,711 times
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I went from omni to vegan overnight in February 2011 and was vegan for 6.5 years (now pescetarian). My first two years vegan were strictly whole foods, very little to no oil, no soy, very low fat, made my own plant milks. My weight and exercise were the same as before I went vegan (I was 106 lbs when I first went vegan and had been that weight for a while before). the year before I went vegan, still eating very healthy but eating meat etc. I had just my total cholesterol and HDL checked in 2010 as an omni. Total was 155, HDL was 62. I was 38 years old then. 1.5 years later as a no oil low fat vegan, I had a free fasting lipid screen. My total went down to 125, HDL 57, LDL 67, triglycerides 46, glucose 82. So total improved but HDL slightly decreased due to not eating fish presumably. I did consume ground flaxseed and occasional walnuts, and later supplemented with vegan algae based DHA for a while. I do now eat fish 1-2x week since December 2017 but have not had another screening since the one in 2012.

I actually started consuming some oil because my weight got way too low (as low as 90 lbs and I am 5'5.5") and I needed to gain weight. I consumed more nuts and seed butters etc as well. I could not keep weight on doing very low fat no oil. My skin was dry and hair thinned somewhat, but to be fair I did restrict quite a bit for a while back then due to an eating disorder, and eating that strict triggered a full relapse by the end of 2012. Being less strict with diet was imperative for me in order to recover both mentally and physically. Due to low weight, exercising like a maniac, and restricting calories (though I still ate what some would consider a low normal amount of food, but I exercised fanatically), as well as at times low B12 and iron ferritn, I was still at increased risk for a heart attack, regardless of avoiding oil.

I don't consume loads of oil now, but I use a little extra virgin olive oil with a little vinegar from time to time as a salad dressing, or a little coconut oil on special occasions for baking. I might add some coconut oil for roasting vegetables, but it's not a huge glob. I highly doubt this is going to drastically increase my chances of artery or heart disease and heart attack. There are millions of people who eat very healthy and include a little oil without ever experiencing cardiovascular issues. There is serious longevity on my Dad's side of the family. My great grandma lived to be 105 years old, and she ate meat all her life. She was sharp as a tack into her 100s. My great aunt recently passed away at 101 years of age, never had heart disease, or high cholesterol. She also never drove a car in her life, and never took medications other than a little pain med for arthritis starting in her 80s. She was rail thin. Grandma also lived well into her nineties. None of them had osteoporosis either save my Grandma who never fractured until in her 90s. None of them however, were junk food eaters and they all loved to cook from scratch. All had very little money, and worked hard all their lives. My grandma consumed a lot of dairy and used butter in everything lol. I do think genetics play a role. But there is more to the picture than just total cholesterol.

As a side note, my husband ate mostly vegan with me for a while, though he would on occasion eat a little dairy for himself. His total cholesterol went way down from 180s to something like 105 (can't remember exact number). His LDL went down even more drastically, all the way to 50s, lower than mine. But his HDL was also way too low in low 40s, and I think HDL plays a protective role for the arteries too?
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Up on the bluff above the lake
1,280 posts, read 688,587 times
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Thanks Robinwomb for sharing lots of info. It's very clear that we are all a little different from one another so the remedies are not one-size-fits-all. It seems the medical/pharma industries have been focusing mainly on the cholesterol area as the main cause of heart disease. But while I believe cholesterol numbers are very important, ( by keeping total cholesterol 150 or lower, and LDL 70 or lower) but no more important than several other factors including avoidance of trans fats, a minimum intake of saturated fats/oils, plenty of exercise, and living as stress-free as possible. Food is far more than fuel for our bodies, and lapses in optimal nutritional levels wreak havoc silently without our knowledge until symptoms require immediate and at times emergency attention. All these factors play into our optimal health or lack of. Most of us who have seen a cardiologist hear the term, lifestyle changes are needed. Heed these words, lifestyle changes are far more important than being on any diet, as diets and any rewards from them are temporary. We want good health to be a lifetime goal.
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