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Old 06-26-2014, 07:58 AM
 
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How many miles of Class 1 trails are in TO? Can you bike to the water in TO via Class 1?

How long of a train ride is it from TO to LA?

Irvine trumps on both. TO is a rump to LA, Irvine is a metro area all by itself.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenSky View Post
How many miles of Class 1 trails are in TO? Can you bike to the water in TO via Class 1?
The majority of the bike paths in TO and Irvine are Class 2 and I'm not sure what relevance a concrete bike path to water (and I assume you mean the ocean?) has here. Bicycling magazine ranked Thousand Oak in their top 50 bike friendly cities:

America's Best Bike Cities: 38. Thousand Oaks, CA | Bicycling Magazine

Irvine isn't in the top 50.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenSky View Post
How long of a train ride is it from TO to LA?
The train does not go through Thousand Oaks, but it does go through other cities in Ventura County and the train ride into central LA from Ventura County (at least Moorpark and Simi) is about the same distance as Irvine to downtown LA. But Thousand Oaks is more commutable by car via the 101. Thousand Oaks is more commutable to LA than Irvine, Thousand oaks is closer to most of LA (population wise) than Irvine.

The commute from Thousand Oaks to the San Fernando Valley, which is around half of LA, isn't that bad either. Personally I wouldn't want to commute into central LA from Thousand Oaks or Irvine, just too much traffic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenSky View Post
Irvine trumps on both. TO is a rump to LA, Irvine is a metro area all by itself.
Irvine isn't a metro by itself, its part of a larger metro area. There is no real division between Irvine and its surrounding cities, you'd have to look at a map to know whether you're in Irvine, Santa Ana, Costa Mesa, etc. Just one big piece of interconnected concrete cities.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:35 AM
 
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Right. Nice award, no Class 1. FAIL. By contrast, Irvine is smothered in Class 1 (and Class 2) and has paths that stretch to the beach. TO can work on getting their little award all they want, Irvine actually has substance while TO biking is a nightmare.

Train ride from TO to LA is a multi-hour project that involves a drive with traffic risk to a train stop with few runs to LA. Metro-link from Irvine to LA? The train runs right through the city, multiple stops.

OC doesn't have a core, but if it did, it'd be Irvine. The number of large non-civic employers in Irvine makes TO look like Foothill Ranch.

VC is a great sleepy retirement or vacation burg. Hardly a place for a someone looking to make a career in IT.

There's just no comparison between VC and OC for IT jobs - OC trumps it by 10x. Just do a simple search on Indeed.com.
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,470 posts, read 18,235,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenSky View Post
Right. Nice award, no Class 1. FAIL. By contrast, Irvine is smothered in Class 1 (and Class 2) and has paths that stretch to the beach. TO can work on getting their little award all they want, Irvine actually has substance while TO biking is a nightmare.
Irvine is not "smothered" with class I bike paths, like Thousand Oaks, its mostly class 2. Thousand Oaks has ranked well for bike friendliness by a variety of organizations none of which have anything to do with the city, the city isn't paying to receive awards but has put a good deal of money towards making the city more bike friendly and continues to do so. The objective assessments are at odds with what you're claiming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenSky View Post
Train ride from TO to LA is a multi-hour project that involves a drive with traffic risk to a train stop with few runs to LA.
Like I said, there isn't a train station in Thousand Oaks but Ventura County, especially Moorpark and Simi Valley, aren't any further from central LA than Irvine. If the train was a critical issue, one could live in Moorpark and work in Thousand Oaks. The commute from Moorpark to Thousand Oaks is pretty minimal.

Also for someone in Irvine, depending on where they lived, the commute to the train station could easily be 15~20 minutes.

The fact is, the public transit into LA from Thousand Oaks or Irvine is bad in either case. The situation in Irvine is marginally better due to the existence of a train station in the city, but its not centrally located to most of Irvine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenSky View Post
OC doesn't have a core, but if it did, it'd be Irvine. The number of large non-civic employers in Irvine makes TO look like Foothill Ranch.
There is no meaningful division between Orange county and south LA county, the areas blend into each other. Its basically one big mass of concrete. This and the fact that orange county is population wise a lot bigger than ventura county, makes a huge difference in terms of jobs. But if the OP is just looking in Thousand Oaks, they are missing the majority of jobs that would be available to someone in Thousand Oaks. The San Fernando Valley is commutable from Thousand Oaks and represents around half of the city of Los Angeles. Not to mention other connected cities.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenSky View Post
VC is a great sleepy retirement or vacation burg. Hardly a place for a someone looking to make a career in IT.
I like sleepy areas and I think the Thousand Oaks area has a nice mix of proximity to Los Angeles and isolation from Los Angeles. Over the weekend I can drive 30~40 minutes and be in heart of Los Angeles for events and drive home at night, drive up to my home and smell fresh air and have peace and quiet. When driving from LA into the Conejo Valley at night I always love that it goes black once you get over the hill.

In any case, I didn't disagree with the claim that there are more jobs available in the Irvine area, instead I'm disagreeing with the idea that Thousand Oaks and Irvine are similar so one can just select which area has more jobs and be done with it. There are significant differences between the two areas, the very reason why Irvine has more jobs results in a number of major differences between the two cities. But the availability of jobs depends on the sector and one only needs one job. The OP would have a job in Thousand Oaks, he is just concerned with finding a new one if something were to happen. I guess, personally, I don't plan that far ahead and instead would focus on having a good financial security blanket.
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Old 06-26-2014, 03:22 PM
 
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You obviously aren't a cyclist if you're holding up an award and calling it a winner.

Objective measure? Irvine has 44 miles of Class 1 and 280 miles of class 2.
TO has zero miles of Class 1 and perhaps 100 or so miles of class 2.

Among Irvine's Class 1 are paths that lead to the beach and the local mountains, and connect the employment clusters at the Spectrum with many of the villages. How does one bike to the beach from TO? Good luck on Westlake Blvd!

I've done extensive riding in both TO and Irvine; there is simply NO comparison. Even with TO's sharrows, between on-street parking and impatient drivers, TO Blvd is a meat grinder for cyclists-- and it's literally the only way to go north-south without hitting major hills. The place is a joke, just like the award. Great job filling out the form, too bad there's no substance.

But to jobs and transit and such... Irvine has a UC and a tech+biotech cluster wrapped around the university that keeps it vibrant. It is its own ecosystem of jobs with a virtuous circle of low crime and outstanding schools. TO only offers 2 of those 3, and if it loses its large employer (or the employer decides to move IT operations), it would be devastating to the city.

You may not think ahead to the next job, but someone looking to relocate their family definitely should.
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Old 06-26-2014, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,470 posts, read 18,235,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenSky View Post
You obviously aren't a cyclist if you're holding up an award and calling it a winner.

Objective measure? Irvine has 44 miles of Class 1 and 280 miles of class 2.
TO has zero miles of Class 1 and perhaps 100 or so miles of class 2.
Irvine has almost twice the population of Thousand Oaks, has more streets, etc as such obviously counting the number of bike routes isn't going to cut it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenSky View Post
How does one bike to the beach from TO? Good luck on Westlake Blvd!
A large mountain range separates Thousand Oaks from the ocean so the situation is not comparable and this says little about the city itself. Though there are a number of excellent hikes and biking trails from Thousand Oaks to the beach, just not concrete bike paths.

In any case, you are free to have whatever opinion you want but I'd prefer to refer to objective assessments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenSky View Post
But to jobs and transit and such... Irvine has a UC and a tech+biotech cluster wrapped around the university that keeps it vibrant.
Irvine is a larger city that is part of a larger metro area so naturally its going to have more jobs, as I said, that isn't something I'm disputing. I'm disputing the claim that the two cities are so similar that one can select between them solely on the basis of job availability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenSky View Post
You may not think ahead to the next job, but someone looking to relocate their family definitely should.
I don't think people should make many sacrifices for what may happen in the future. If the OP likes Irvine and Thousand Oaks just the same, then they should probably go with Irvine but if they prefer Thousand Oaks then they should move to Thousand Oaks. You can always move if something goes wrong, just make sure you have a financial cushion.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by user_id View Post
I'm disputing the claim that the two cities are so similar that one can select between them solely on the basis of job availability.
Sounds like you have a beef with the OP; that's the entire crux of his question.

I can't think of another that is more similar to TO in SoCal than Irvine (can you?), and the OP came to the same conclusion. His question is about the difference in jobs -- both you and I agree the job situation is far better in Irvine.
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Old 06-27-2014, 01:46 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,470 posts, read 18,235,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenSky View Post
I can't think of another that is more similar to TO in SoCal than Irvine (can you?), and the OP came to the same conclusion.
Yes, I can think of a number of areas that are more similar than Irvine. I'm not even sure if the OP has visited the two cities yet.

Other than being safe and relatively affluent, Irvine and Thousand Oaks don't have that much in common.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenSky View Post
His question is about the difference in jobs -- both you and I agree the job situation is far better in Irvine.
He asked a number of questions, jobs was just one of them. They didn't say anything about lifestyle factors hence why I mentioned that the two areas aren't the same except the job situation, their are significant differences so which is a better fit is going to depend on the details.
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Old 06-27-2014, 09:05 AM
 
700 posts, read 1,211,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Yes, I can think of a number of areas that are more similar than Irvine. I'm not even sure if the OP has visited the two cities yet.
Like.... ?
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Old 06-27-2014, 11:54 AM
 
Location: TOVCCA
8,452 posts, read 12,852,571 times
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OP is going with OC, flying in tomorrow:

Quote:
Originally Posted by meameame12 View Post
Hi, so we are flying out to LAX this Saturday for house hunting. Probably quite a few of you recall our efforts..Areas we will search are Irvine, Mission Viejo, Lake Forest, and maybe a few more cities.
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