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I've been doing extensive research and considering life in California.
Our reason for this consideration is the desire for a life in a more hospital climate. Winter's we get shut in for months here in Canada.
We seriously weigh the cost over a lifetime of the lost experience and time outside. This can and does amount to years and years shut inside a house while the temperature is terrible and the sunshine is absent for weeks at a time. Those from the area are familiar with SAD (season affective disorder) which affect many (grey, cold, for months and months has an unsurprisingly negative effect on people).
As an aside, some Nordic countries and even Canadians love the winter and poll as 'happy' during this period via engagement with the outdoor snowscape (skating, ice fishing, snowmobiling, skiing, snow-shoeing). This is not us! Muskoka's (cottage country as they call it) and Toronto during the summer and fall we love, but the other 7 months we do not.
In particular, I was considering Thousand Oaks for the schools, climate, proximity to the beach (Malibu), trails, affluent suburban setting and the typical big box stores. It is also close to our ownly family in the area.
I am hoping to solicit some advice and thoughts from users here, including any Canadians who made a similar move.
About us:
We are white, youngish (lol wife more than me), I'm 34, the wife is 26, we have three young children.
I own and run a business I've worked my butt off on for years and it can now afford us location independence (Everything can and is run virtually, including managing my staff - So we do not have to 'BE' anywhere). Visa's etc are another hurdle, but I am not too concerned. If we bought, price range would be $2MM-3MM. We like sophisticated people, who are exciting, worldly and just fun lol (ambiguous comment perhaps!)
My actual concerns are the following:
1) Boring - We lived in Toronto Canada until we had children and moved to the 'burbs', and are very unsatisfied out here, especially during the winter, it is just so isolating and uninspiring. In the city we were inspired by young professionals, more cosmopolitan environment, entrepreneurial thinking, etc, etc. We realized however with 3 kids the downtown was not conducive to space exactly. I understand Thousand Oaks is sleepy, and potentially boring, but at least the climate allows for outdoor activity year round (and sunshine). Is there another recommendation? I figure T.O is close to Santa Monica, Malibu, a decent drive to Santa Barbara, and of course L.A if my wife and I wanted a night out on the weekend.
2) Family and Friends - We are genuinely concerned about making quality friends, particularly with our age (my wife's more so) as most moms in particular around Toronto are much older, and to a lesser extent dads. Are the families in T.O generally friendly and accepting of new comers? Santa Monica, on the other hand, I am concerned is too eclectic. How have people who moved away from family and friends coped?
In the Blue Zone's (area's identified throughout the world where people have lived to the most advanced ages in good health) many are in Mediterranean climates, eat good diets AND have a strong connection to community friends, and family. The last part we are most concerned about, and living in a beautiful area is hollow if there is no meaningful relationship to the community and people. (I also understand this is dependent upon us and our choices) Hearing experiences from others who have moved from family and friends helpful!
Also, if there are other locations to recommend please feel free to share.
The other obvious consideration is to stay in Canada and snowbird during the winter to various warmer climates. The challenge here is having young children in school and taking them out of school to travel for 4-5 months every year. Their curriculum would be inconsistent. I wager the only possiblity for this would be homeschooling.
The only immigrant visa I can see you qualifying for is the EB-5 investor visa. It requires a minimum $500k USD investment and that you provide 10 full-time jobs for American workers. This would be a big change from your current business model, or so it seems. Here is the information:
Given that hurdle, although Thousand Oaks is nice, it is not exciting or full of sophisticated worldly people. It's very "white bread" if you know that term. The main networking and socialization is based on parenting, schools, parks and recreation activities, etc. It is mostly single family homes in quiet neighborhoods. No sense of community that you seek---well, frankly, I think this is lacking almost everywhere in SoCal---due to the transient population, the vastness of the area, and little distinction between neighborhoods. What Thousand Oaks is good for is being a clean, safe city within 35 minutes to 1.5 hours driving distance to the beach, the San Fernando Valley, the City of Ventura, and Los Angeles--where all the culture, diversity, museums, etc. are. After a while of living in TO, however, the thought of driving through unceasing traffic to go have "fun" loses its appeal. Perhaps Sherman Oaks or Encino would be more your style, with its more urbanized vibe, younger population, and more things to do nearby.
Any other questions about TO, feel free to ask.
Last edited by nightlysparrow; 01-26-2018 at 02:25 PM..
In particular, I was considering Thousand Oaks for the schools, climate, proximity to the beach (Malibu), trails, affluent suburban setting and the typical big box stores. It is also close to our ownly family in the area.
My actual concerns are the following:
1) Boring - Is there another recommendation? I figure T.O is close to Santa Monica, Malibu, a decent drive to Santa Barbara, and of course L.A if my wife and I wanted a night out on the weekend.
I suggest Santa Barbara. Very affluent with a cosmopolitan (compared to TO) beachfront/downtown area, zoo, children's museum, and a crapload of beautiful beaches and parks that are great for ages 0 to 90.
Ventura is a possibility. It's much less expensive and more in the middle with easy access to Ojai, SB, TO, and not too far to LA. However, I would pick SB over Ventura, even if it is more isolated from LA.
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2) Family and Friends - We are genuinely concerned about making quality friends, particularly with our age (my wife's more so) as most moms in particular around Toronto are much older, and to a lesser extent dads. Are the families in T.O generally friendly and accepting of new comers? Santa Monica, on the other hand, I am concerned is too eclectic. How have people who moved away from family and friends coped?
If you are friendly and make an effort to go out and meet people, you'll find a very welcoming attitude in the general area. Many people are VERY into themselves or their own pet projects, but if you can listen with a grain of salt (and maybe joke about them with your wife afterward) you'll do fine.
Quote:
In the Blue Zone's (area's identified throughout the world where people have lived to the most advanced ages in good health) many are in Mediterranean climates, eat good diets AND have a strong connection to community friends, and family. The last part we are most concerned about, and living in a beautiful area is hollow if there is no meaningful relationship to the community and people. (I also understand this is dependent upon us and our choices) Hearing experiences from others who have moved from family and friends helpful!
We're transplants with no family nearby. We're not friendly people, but our neighbors are. We are cordial with them, but we're very family-focused, especially since our children are very young. As our kids get older, I'm confident we'll make connections with the community. Compared to the East Coast and Midwest of the United States, people here are really welcoming.
And 2nd the opinion that your only chance to immigrate will be through an EB-5 visa. However, if you can put 2-3M into a house, then you should be able to come up with 500K for various companies that use EB visa criteria to raise capital and pay for employees. You don't need to alter your own business to do so, though that would be a viable option.
Be aware, however, that you are competing with a LOT of Chinese millionaires. The current EB visa backlog stands at 13,000, and only 10,000 are issued per year. So you will be stuck using your Canadian Passport for visa-free entry or some other means to stay in the USA for at least a year or two before you will have a chance to apply for the investor visa. This might cause you some trouble establishing lines of credit and various other financial and civil functions as you won't have a SSID for a while.
OP, you are almost exactly the same as me. same # of kids, same age difference, same exact reasons for moving here. You are not alone! Anyways, we love it and you will too. Its a great place to raise kids and you and your wife will be outside with them a lot. If one or both of you is a stay at home parent, you will be literally in the best place in the world to do it IMHO. You've probably done your research and realize this is a solid school district (especially feeding into Westlake High school). There are more things to do with your kids here than you'll ever have time to do. No more bored weekends stuck inside. Santa Barbara Zoo, Malibu beaches, LA with its various options all within reach. The people are great, the wife has more friends in living here for 6 months than I think ever before. We coped just fine and already have made friends with similar aged kids. I believe this is due to the climate as you are outside with your kids every day meeting others.
Nightly Sparrow: Thanks for the feedback. In terms of Visa I know of a Canadian entrepreneur who is getting his E2. That would likely be a $100K minimum investment, and it needs to be renewed but is a viable option (we do 95% of our business revenue with the US anyway). Thank you for your thoughts on Thousand Oaks. Funny, when you say TO, I keep reading it as Toronto, as that is how Toronto is often referred to as well!
WAC432: Your comment sent me on a long long research-intensive study of Santa Barbara and it is very appealing. Definitely much more expensive in terms of bang-for-your-buck property wise, but the location seems very difficult to beat. I have read often the nearly-wed and nearly dead reference to the college students and the retirees.
Happy to hear people are welcoming. I do hear a lot of people are tansient.
In terms of the Visa and passports etc, as I mentioned above the E2 visa is also a possibility I have been told. In terms of banking and credit, I bank with Canada's largest bank, Royal Bank of Canada, which amazingly has a US-owned bank (RBC Bank). We do 95% of our business with US customers so we needed a US-based USD account to minimize exchange rate. Anyway, getting to the point it allows me to have a credit history and when banking in the US they are in a unique position to utilize and apply our Canadian banking history. They deal a lot with Canadian snowbirds.
DKM: Wow, very inspiring journey and experience. Amazing we share such similar 'stats'. I'll be looking into Westlake now as well. Congrats on making the change and finding so much more happiness in the move. Your story is uplifting and very encouraging.
I should add a caveat: I'm a surfer, so I wouldn't consider anything more than a mile from the beach. TO and nearby areas are great if you don't need to be in the water a couple of times a week. If the ocean doesn't do anything much for you, TO and surrounding inland areas are best.
EXCEPT that it does get blazing hot for months on end. When its 90+ all the nice playgrounds and parks are pretty useless because the equipment is too hot (and it's just not that much fun to be outside in the furnace in general) for the kids to play on, sunrise to sunset.
If you live within a mile or so of the water, the temperature rarely gets above 80 except during offshore wind events, which typically only last a day or two. The coasts might have highs in the 90's for a week or more, but things cool off fast in the afternoon with the seabreeze, so parks and beaches are pleasant by 4PM (and in the summer it's light until 9).
Finally, when you get down to selecting your actual property, consider whether you want a place on the valley floor away from any wildland or hillside. The only houses that burn are the ones in the hills. The fires are alway stopped at the valley floors (including the massive Thomas fire) because the winds are calmer there. Also, wildland scrub is a HUGE PAIN to keep clear, and you have to worry about mountain lions and coyotes if you have small animals or young children.
I live on an awesome hillside property where I can climb up and check the surf from my back yard. It's a great neighborhood, the value of properties with views are sky-high, and the property is awesome for older kids, but dealing with younger kids and managing the yard and dealing with the critters and challenges of hillside living (like fire evacuations) can suck.
Yes I can see the visa thing being an issue. Our neighbors in HI are Canadian and wealthy. They have a home in HI but can only live in the States 6 months per year legally. So they stay the 6 months then go back to Canada. They always say they wish they could live in HI full-time. So that may be a hurdle unless like previous poster said, you can provide employment for 10 residents.
In terms of Visa I know of a Canadian entrepreneur who is getting his E2. That would likely be a $100K minimum investment, and it needs to be renewed but is a viable option (we do 95% of our business revenue with the US anyway).
The E-2 visa is a NON-immigrant visa; it is not a dual-intent visa. You may be able to adjust status eventually to become an immigrant, but it is a lengthy and complicated process. If the business ends, you must move back to Canada.
EXCEPT that it does get blazing hot for months on end. When its 90+ all the nice playgrounds and parks are pretty useless because the equipment is too hot (and it's just not that much fun to be outside in the furnace in general) for the kids to play on, sunrise to sunset.
I hate to be a stickler but this simply isn't true for TO. Its not more than 90 months on end. Simi and Agoura Hills are hot areas, but TO is kept milder with a westerly blowing most of the summer. Average summer high is mid 80s. Its the same climate as roughly Hollywood.
I hate to be a stickler but this simply isn't true for TO. Its not more than 90 months on end. Simi and Agoura Hills are hot areas, but TO is kept milder with a westerly blowing most of the summer. Average summer high is mid 80s. Its the same climate as roughly Hollywood.
You live there, I don't. Would you say it's too hot to play on playground equipment for a portion of the summer, or not?
I may have just driven up during the hottest days. It was a shock to go from a high of 72 in Ventura and then have it be 102 at the top of the grade!
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