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I have noticed that for a small state, Vermont has a lot of variety from place to place. Middlebury was extremely friendly while Woodstock tended to be a bit stuffy for me. I found Brattleboro to be the most progressive in my opinion. They have a fantastic co-op there. A great progressive newspaper for local news is the Brattleboro Reformer.
Last edited by MustHaveCoffee; 04-05-2012 at 01:37 PM..
I have noticed that for a small state, Vermont has a lot of variety from place to place. Middlebury was extremely friendly while Woodstock tended to be a bit stuffy for me. I found Brattleboro to be the most progressive in my opinion. They have a fantastic co-op there. A great progressive newspaper for local news is the Brattleboro Reformer.
The Commons is a local progressive paper for Windham County, the county in southeastern Vermont whose major town is Brattleboro. It comes out every Wednesday and it's free. It is very well-regarded. Check out their website:
My take on using the term "progressive" as opposed to "liberal": Conservatives worked to demonize the word "liberal" for their own purposes. Also, "progressive" makes sense as a contrast to "conservative". Progressives want to progress, while conservatives want to conserve. That, I think, is a neutral, non-judgmental, non-inflammatory way of putting it.
And yes, Brattleboro is, shall we say, somewhat left of center. That was the strong impression I got when I first visited. As a consequence of the progressive/liberal orientation, it is a very tolerant town where people can be themselves. It is also a town that comes together when there is adversity or serious unjustice. Not always, but most of the time. There is compassion, and at the same time there is respect for the rule of law.
On the downside, there is serious poverty and homelessness, and there is more crime than in most other places in Vermont. Crime seems to be largely related to substance abuse, e.g. drunk driving, fighting, and, more seriously, drug dealing. And you also read about domestic violence and child sexual abuse. But this stuff makes the papers, unlike in more populous areas, where it is so common that it isn't always considered newsworthy.
Why isn't anyone mentioning Bennington? I know it may not be the nicest city in VT, but it definitely has a group of "progressive" young people. I really don't like Burlington, personally, it is stereotyped way too much. It is not as free and liberal as people think, matter of fact, it is a major port for commercialism and mainstream business. I mean, Urban Outfitters, need we say more? It is frustrating to me. Its like Montclair NJ in my opinion. Which is not very progressive or liberal at all, it is trendy and expensive and goes with the current popular media and ideas.
And yes, Brattleboro is, shall we say, somewhat left of center. That was the strong impression I got when I first visited. As a consequence of the progressive/liberal orientation, it is a very tolerant town where people can be themselves. It is also a town that comes together when there is adversity or serious unjustice. Not always, but most of the time. There is compassion, and at the same time there is respect for the rule of law.
You described the entire state of VT, not just Brattleboro. Compassion and at the same time there is respect for the rule of law? What? Have you ever been to a Court session in VT? FYI I have, and I was incarcerated for all of 5 hours in a holding cell with a whole gaggle of VT's finest drug addled ladies, (I was incarcerated for a moving violation that was supposedly dismissed and then reappeared 3 years later when I was applying for car insurance in NJ....) You are clearly seeing things through very rosy glasses. IF there is any truth to your observation it would be only because VT has somewhat more relaxed laws than other places..
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On the downside, there is serious poverty and homelessness, and there is more crime than in most other places in Vermont. Crime seems to be largely related to substance abuse, e.g. drunk driving, fighting, and, more seriously, drug dealing. And you also read about domestic violence and child sexual abuse. But this stuff makes the papers, unlike in more populous areas, where it is so common that it isn't always considered newsworthy.
This is everywhere, not just VT, and surely not just Brattleboro. As for your "more seriously, drug dealing" statement, if you are speaking in regard to the pot dealers in VT, you're being a bit dramatic. I lived there for years, on a really crappy section of town, where there was "drug" activity, I think there was an occasional crack dealing going on, mainly heroin issues in VT, well at least in Bennington and Rutland, (Burlington DOES have a large drug selection and problem due to UVM and its trust fund babies).
I picked up in an earlier thread that you were indeed a transplant from, Brooklyn? Yeah. You are one of the many people that has maintained VT's liberal and progressive stigma. VT does indeed have a Mecca like quality for people who are looking to find social and political freedom, and that is fine. It is passed down from tales of the 60's, and has stuck. People like you (and myself included once upon a time), become hypnotized by this aura it gives off, and you/we become know it alls about VT's socioeconomic patterns and its "good vibrations all around attitude". The truth is my fellow poster, is that you obviously have not been there very long, and have clearly not had much experience with REAL non-transplant VTer's, which may be hard to do in B-boro. Get out of far southern VT, take a ride through E. Dorset, or Rupert and Pawlet, Danby, etc. You will see some of the real things that are going on there. Not everyone is a socially progressive as you assume; remember VT is still a rurally based economy and in many instances a lot of its residents have not had the opportunity to be as educated as one may assume, and surely are not as socially aware as we would all like to hope. It is not a bad thing, it is a global issue, VT is not exempt because its pretty and "relaxed". I hope for the sake of the state though, (especially because I am pretty sure I am coming back), that the transplants stop acting so pretentious and fancy and spread out a little bit to the REAL Vermont, not just "socially progressive" towns that are addled with neat shops.
Not everyone is a socially progressive as you assume; remember VT is still a rurally based economy and in many instances a lot of its residents have not had the opportunity to be as educated as one may assume, and surely are not as socially aware as we would all like to hope. It is not a bad thing, it is a global issue, VT is not exempt because its pretty and "relaxed". I hope for the sake of the state though, (especially because I am pretty sure I am coming back), that the transplants stop acting so pretentious and fancy and spread out a little bit to the REAL Vermont, not just "socially progressive" towns that are addled with neat shops.
I hope for the sake of Vermont, the transplants who share your ideas start leaving in droves. Maybe when gas hits $6, we start having nice severe Winters year after year, we'll see that. In the meantime, I have every confidence arrogant sorts with this mindset will find themselves unwelcome in places such as most of the NEK, much of Rutland County, etc. Please stay in the "progressive" towns with their nasty sprawl, development, traffic, pollution and crime issues.
I find it slightly humerous to see someone from NJ posting that VT'ers are ignorant or "not socially aware." It's funny that us native VT'ers gave the country the first state banning slavery, the first constitutionally requiring public education, started the conservation movement (George Perkins Marsh ring a bell?), President Coolidge who granted Native Americans equal citizenship rights, didn't persecute all the whacky hippies in the 60's and 70's like most other states despite them breaking multiple laws...yeah, Vermonters have always been socially unaware and uneducated. We need people from the utopia of freedom, justice and a healthy environment known as New Jersey to show us what to do.
I hope for the sake of Vermont, the transplants who share your ideas start leaving in droves. Maybe when gas hits $6, we start having nice severe Winters year after year, we'll see that. In the meantime, I have every confidence arrogant sorts with this mindset will find themselves unwelcome in places such as most of the NEK, much of Rutland County, etc. Please stay in the "progressive" towns with their nasty sprawl, development, traffic, pollution and crime issues.
I find it slightly humerous to see someone from NJ posting that VT'ers are ignorant or "not socially aware." It's funny that us native VT'ers gave the country the first state banning slavery, the first constitutionally requiring public education, started the conservation movement (George Perkins Marsh ring a bell?), President Coolidge who granted Native Americans equal citizenship rights, didn't persecute all the whacky hippies in the 60's and 70's like most other states despite them breaking multiple laws...yeah, Vermonters have always been socially unaware and uneducated. We need people from the utopia of freedom, justice and a healthy environment known as New Jersey to show us what to do.
I lived in VT for years, and I was speaking of it in a kind manner, not a condescending way. I wasn't trying to make VT out to be a backwards ass hillbilly state, as you seemed to have thought. I was merely saying that the people there are just people, not some kind of poster child for the hippy culture. I come from a long line of VTer's. My family lived there for GENERATIONS, unfortunately I ended up in NJ for half the year for much of my life.
Heres another thing maybe you'd like to relax about; if it wasn't for the people from the Utopia of NJ, most of VT's foot traffic would be nil. I know the whole "don't Jersey VT" and "flatlander" talk. Its b.s.
Maybe you shouldn't have read my post with such a defensive attitude. Sorry that you feel like someone who really loves Vermont, for what it is, not for the way the shops in Brattleboro look all lined up with each other on the main strip.
I lived in VT for years, and I was speaking of it in a kind manner, not a condescending way. I wasn't trying to make VT out to be a backwards ass hillbilly state, as you seemed to have thought. I was merely saying that the people there are just people, not some kind of poster child for the hippy culture. I come from a long line of VTer's. My family lived there for GENERATIONS, unfortunately I ended up in NJ for half the year for much of my life.
Heres another thing maybe you'd like to relax about; if it wasn't for the people from the Utopia of NJ, most of VT's foot traffic would be nil. I know the whole "don't Jersey VT" and "flatlander" talk. Its b.s.
Maybe you shouldn't have read my post with such a defensive attitude. Sorry that you feel like someone who really loves Vermont, for what it is, not for the way the shops in Brattleboro look all lined up with each other on the main strip.
The "don't Jersey VT" and such talk really isn't B.S. I've been dealing with a neighbor from NJ who constantly harasses me over my bringing guns, traps, etc., in and out of my home and car. People who feel a need to call the police everytime they see a gun or an animal carcass doesn't belong here, and that's far too many of those from that state. I need a bigger "don't Jersey Vermont" sticker. Personally, I'd love to see Vermont end its reliance on tourism and actually become an affordable state for normal people again.
You described the entire state of VT, not just Brattleboro. Compassion and at the same time there is respect for the rule of law? What? Have you ever been to a Court session in VT? FYI I have, and I was incarcerated for all of 5 hours in a holding cell with a whole gaggle of VT's finest drug addled ladies, (I was incarcerated for a moving violation that was supposedly dismissed and then reappeared 3 years later when I was applying for car insurance in NJ....) You are clearly seeing things through very rosy glasses. IF there is any truth to your observation it would be only because VT has somewhat more relaxed laws than other places..
This is everywhere, not just VT, and surely not just Brattleboro. As for your "more seriously, drug dealing" statement, if you are speaking in regard to the pot dealers in VT, you're being a bit dramatic. I lived there for years, on a really crappy section of town, where there was "drug" activity, I think there was an occasional crack dealing going on, mainly heroin issues in VT, well at least in Bennington and Rutland, (Burlington DOES have a large drug selection and problem due to UVM and its trust fund babies).
I picked up in an earlier thread that you were indeed a transplant from, Brooklyn? Yeah. You are one of the many people that has maintained VT's liberal and progressive stigma. VT does indeed have a Mecca like quality for people who are looking to find social and political freedom, and that is fine. It is passed down from tales of the 60's, and has stuck. People like you (and myself included once upon a time), become hypnotized by this aura it gives off, and you/we become know it alls about VT's socioeconomic patterns and its "good vibrations all around attitude". The truth is my fellow poster, is that you obviously have not been there very long, and have clearly not had much experience with REAL non-transplant VTer's, which may be hard to do in B-boro. Get out of far southern VT, take a ride through E. Dorset, or Rupert and Pawlet, Danby, etc. You will see some of the real things that are going on there. Not everyone is a socially progressive as you assume; remember VT is still a rurally based economy and in many instances a lot of its residents have not had the opportunity to be as educated as one may assume, and surely are not as socially aware as we would all like to hope. It is not a bad thing, it is a global issue, VT is not exempt because its pretty and "relaxed". I hope for the sake of the state though, (especially because I am pretty sure I am coming back), that the transplants stop acting so pretentious and fancy and spread out a little bit to the REAL Vermont, not just "socially progressive" towns that are addled with neat shops.
I can appreciate some of your comments, but I'm not sure what the point of your post is.
And please do not presume to know what others are thinking, assuming or feeling. Or what others are aware of or are unaware of.
Finally, if Vermont is so awful, why would you want to come back?
Last edited by arel; 04-18-2012 at 07:53 AM..
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