What is going on with renting in VT???? (Burlington: apartment, rentals)
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I've sort of ranted on this before...but in a nutshell the rental/housing situation as it stands in Vermont is by design. Whether the designers intended it to turn out this way or not is sort of irrelevant...given the incentives/disincentives they have provided this is the only way things could logically be.
I guess I was thinking of places like North Providence and Olneyville, it is city blocks full of vinyl sided 3 deckers with no yards, similar to New Bedford and Dorchester. I haven't seen much like that in VT except there's a brick front apartment building in down town Windsor that looks just like South Huntington Ave in JP.
Oh that isn't what Vermont slums look like.
Think something the size of a single family home that used to have a nice grass yard. Now the house has three separate entrances for three one-bedroom apartments and the former yard is now a dirt area used as a parking lot, maybe one out of three of the cards on it even runs. Think screaming kids and screaming parents, teen moms shoving baby carriages, yakking on their cell phones, and punks playing loud gangsta music. Oh and beer cans everywhere. Welcome to Vermont. It's a rural slum but it's still a slum.
I feel the same way as everyone else. We own a 2 bdrm duplex in Winooski and the increase in property taxes, water and sewer (Out of control!!) along with inspections etc is about to put us out of business in the rental property market.
Plus, we need to ask so much in security deposit etc b/c if we have a bad tenant it will take months here to remove them. A large security deposit is pretty much the only way to protect yourself.
We figure the only time we'll actually earn income on the duplex is when we don't have a mortgage anymore.
Most of the apartments in Burlington are deplorable, but because the vacancy rate is so incredibly low landlords get away with it. There are 3 colleges here, so you have a lot of college students with parents' money to compete with. To make up for that, you have to be fast and arrive at a showing prepared. Take your credit report to the apartment showing, and if you have even a glimmer of accepting the place - take it right away. It's not a joke!
As for pets - I've had a cat for nearly 10 years now. This cat is basically family at this point, so leaving him behind is incomprehensible. So when a landlord says I can't bring him, they're basically telling me I can't bring my child. It seems immoral. Speaking of kids, most young children I've seen are even more destructive than any pet I've owned! From a landlord's perspective, they just see a mess ... they should just charge a deposit and send a bill if the deposit doesn't cover damages. At the very least they could ask for a "pet reference" from a previous landlord that knows you're pal is well-mannered.
I make a habit of asking landlords for references from previous tenants. Most of them seem ok with giving them to me, and if so I don't actually get the references. Frankly I have had some horrible landlords and life just isn't worth it. If there is even a slight hesitation, I pass on that one.
FYI - Burlington has a few different laws than the rest of Vermont. For example, a landlord can't charge more than one month's rent for a deposit I have had several unscrupulous people charge 1.5 or even 2 times more than the legal amount. The sad part is, because vacancy rates are so low, many landlords probably get away with lawless behavior like this.
We are from VT but have been moving around for 3 years and may be coming back to VT soon. Some things I have been noticing besides the fact that rental prices are crazier than they were 3 years ago are...
Everything with a reasonable price is one or two bedrooms, even in the expensive stuff there are few three bedroom homes to rent. There seem to be very few actual houses to rent, lots of apartments and duplexes.
No one seems to rent to those with pets anymore. Has anyone heard of a pet deposit? Oh wait no, no one would be able to afford it on top of the first, last and security everyone seems to want. The ones that do rent to pet owners seem to only allow cats or small dogs. What about those with a mix of dog sizes? My large greyhounds are more well behaved than a lot of people's (including my own) small breed dogs. Where are the pet friendly rentals? There must be some somewhere, Vermonters tend to love their animals.
Anyone else frustrated by this? I am really starting to worry we won't be able to find anything to rent and we are in no shape to buy if we head back up that way.
I'm moving in a couple of weeks because I can't find a place to live. I have a job, unable to find anywhere to rent. This state has serious problems...
At the risk of stereotyping, I think a lot of landlords are hesitant to rent out a whole house as one unit because it is difficult to find good tenants for this kind of arrangement. A family friend was renting out their lakehouse before they moved up- the tenant turned out to be a nutjob. Not only did he refuse to pay rent during the final few months, but he removed wood paneling in the house, painted the walls (he was not allowed to do so), was convinced that he actually owned the house, and it turns out he was actually on the run from the cops!
Actually finding an affordable place in Burlington is difficult too. You're pretty much going in for a job interview when you go to a showing. I actually brought my resume with me a couple times. Having some proof that you can afford the apt. for the duration of the lease doesn't hurt either. I am convinced that the only reason I was accepted for this one-bedroom right in downtown Burlington was because I (pleasantly) badgered the landlord and came with evidence that I could afford the place.
Some things to stay away from: I wouldn't trust a landlord that won't do a private showing with you. One landlord invited about 25 people to a single showing for an apt. in the new North End. Technically, a landlord is supposed to accept the first person that shows interest and has proof that they will both be a good tenant and can afford the place. By inviting everyone at once, she was free to discriminate however she chose. She also told a married man, in front of all of us, that she "really liked" how he had a child and that "that would look really good to her" which I personally found to be discrimination based on marital status, but hey what can you do.
Actually finding an affordable place in Burlington is difficult too. You're pretty much going in for a job interview when you go to a showing. I actually brought my resume with me a couple times. Having some proof that you can afford the apt. for the duration of the lease doesn't hurt either. I am convinced that the only reason I was accepted for this one-bedroom right in downtown Burlington was because I (pleasantly) badgered the landlord and came with evidence that I could afford the place.
Some things to stay away from: I wouldn't trust a landlord that won't do a private showing with you. One landlord invited about 25 people to a single showing for an apt. in the new North End. Technically, a landlord is supposed to accept the first person that shows interest and has proof that they will both be a good tenant and can afford the place. By inviting everyone at once, she was free to discriminate however she chose. She also told a married man, in front of all of us, that she "really liked" how he had a child and that "that would look really good to her" which I personally found to be discrimination based on marital status, but hey what can you do.
If a landlord wants to discriminate they can probably find a way to do it, but an applicant insisting on a private showing for that or any other reason is something I would consider a joke. My answer would be: "I've got five other people coming on June 15, if you're interested in seeing it, that is the opportunity." Seriously do the math. If you have 25 applicants do you really expect a landlord to show individually? Figure it takes at least an hour so that is three working days up in smoke as opposed to an hour or two.
Simply showing up to see the place does not consitute serious interest in my book, nor does filling out the application form and leaving most of the fields (like SS #, previous addresses) blank. I tell applicants flat out that I do court checks, contact current / previous employers and law enforcement and insist on proof that they have been paying for the roof over their heads wherever they have been for the past year. And that "proof" has to be in the form of cancelled checks or bank statements. References, handwritten notes from previous landlords are unreliable and totally worthless as are phone numbers that are supposedly from references. I tell them if anything bad is going to come up then don't bother wasting my time and theirs by filling out the form. And if you don't fill it out completely and YES that means you put down your SS number, your application goes into the file for applicants who weren't interested enough to provide the required information.
The last time I rented the single family house I was swamped and about half of the applicants were unacceptable. By the way this was when I was using classified ads in the free local rag for tenant searches - since I went to CL the ratio of trash to halfway normal people has improved a lot. At the showing there were application forms laid out. The way it worked was if you were interested and thought you could pass the screening you filled out the form and got it back to me. Once I receive a completely filled out application form is when the clock starts.
Still it's amazing how people try to slime by. I had one gal tell me she hadn't been paying rent for the past year because she had inherited a house from her mother and was living there. Fine, I said, then you have a property tax bill to show me; that'll do. She replied that this was private information and she didn't have to show it to me. I replied that in that case I didn't need to rent to her. Next was the family who claimed their house had been destroyed in a Florida hurricane, they'd been living in a seasonal trailer park and the owner told them they needed to get out ASAP. Oh and I didn't need to paint or shampoo carpets, they would take care of all that. This is ALWAYS a huge red flag. If an applicant is in that big of a rush and offers to work on the place it usually means they are on the run from a pending eviction so I make sure to take my sweet time. Better to have the place vacant for a month or two then to get the tenant from hell who wrecks the place and squats for six months. At any rate I found out through a court search that their house in Florida was still standing, but they had defaulted on their mortgage and been foreclosed on (this was 2004) and to boot the wifey had also filed domestic violence suits against hubby. So I crossed them off the list too.
Just as an FYI for any decent tenants that are out there - the state of Vermont makes it difficult for landlords to screen tenants because you are not allowed to charge an application fee. If someone has lived in NH and you want to do a court check, you have to pay for it - this is cash our of your pocket. And if you want to run a credit check it costs about $10 so either you shell out $10 for one trashy applicant after another or you find a way to screen such as I have which weeds out almost all of the trash. The other way which apparently is happening in Burlington is that tenants bring their own credit report with them - that sounds like a great idea to me!
Last edited by FrugalYankee; 07-31-2011 at 07:53 AM..
I just listed the property I was renting for sale even though my deadbeat tenant is still there. My eviction proceeding is stalled for some paperwork I was not aware of. I turns out you cannot just state that the tenant is not in the the military. You have to have a signed affidavit as well as proof from the military!
I don't think it's a matter of people 'getting' more than one when they are renting....at least not all the time. You could have folks who have started to transition either to the area or out, or sold their propery for whatever reason and need to rent right now; and already had the pets in the first place.
Or maybe they LOST THEIR HOME due to the economy (job loss, etc) and have to rent and hate to give up their furry family members.....
The last time I rented the single family house I was swamped and about half of the applicants were unacceptable. By the way this was when I was using classified ads in the free local rag for tenant searches - since I went to CL the ratio of trash to halfway normal people has improved a lot. At the showing there were application forms laid out. The way it worked was if you were interested and thought you could pass the screening you filled out the form and got it back to me. Once I receive a completely filled out application form is when the clock starts.
Your advice has really helped! What does "CL" mean?
I wasn't aware that you can't charge an application fee! Where are you getting credit reports for $10? That's reasonable.
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The ones that do rent to pet owners seem to only allow cats or small dogs. What about those with a mix of dog sizes? My large greyhounds are more well behaved than a lot of people's (including my own) small breed dogs. Where are the pet friendly rentals? There must be some somewhere, Vermonters tend to love their animals. 
