[arel]

It has been stressed on this forum that jobs are hard to come by in Vermont and good jobs with high pay are even more scarce.

Someone suggested that prospective transplants bring their own jobs.

It has also been suggested that people start businesses that will employ locals, rather than take a job.

With these ideas in mind, I want to brainstorm. I know I have posted on this and similar topics before, but I think the idea of bringing your own job and that of starting a business that will employ locals are worthy of their own thread.

Bringing one's own job can be: telecommuting; having a technical computer-related job that can be conducted via the Internet; having a non-technical business that can be conducted over the Internet, such as writing/editing business or a resume-writing service; starting a new branch of a company or agency.

Starting a business that can employ others: A private professional practice, which would hire support staff; a store, which would hire staff; a non-profit agency (health, education or the arts, etc.) which would hire staff.

Starting a microbusiness: A small private professional practice without a support staff; free-lance photography; pet or portrait photography; free-lance writing (lots of writers in Brattleboro), building a real estate "empire" of a few rental properties.

What about buying properties, renovating them and then reselling them at a profit? That would give work to local tradespeople, but it might cause resentment by raising property values and perhaps taxes, rents and home prices. But sellers might love that. Since this is a whole new area for me - I have no experience or expertise - please bear with me if I sound naive and/or ignorant. Ignorance is easily remedied. But I also wonder if the next few years are good for this kind of real estate work. I'll have to talk to a real estate person about this.

Can full-time Vermonters on the forum add to this list, based on local needs, and/or give some feedback? I realize work choices are highly individual, based on talent, interest, training and experience. But necessity is the mother of invention. If I, and people like me, are to financially survive in Vermont, and even (gulp) thrive - i.e. make enough to live beneath our means, save, and enjoy our lives - we need to step outside the box.

[68vette]

I'm not sure if renting your home in NYC is an option for you. If you have a motgage and it's less than what you can get for rent, you could use that to supplement your living expenses in Vermont. If things don't work out you could always go back. You would also need to take insurance, property taxes and maintenance into consideration. Your home in NYC should be worth more than what you could buy in Brattleboro. If making enough money to survive is a concern, you could buy a multi-family home and rent a unit out to offset your expenses. My parents always told me to do what makes me happy. If you love the type of work that you do, then continue doing that job. It will make you happier in the long run.

[arel]

Renting my house may be an option. But there is work that needs to be done on it, e.g. new bathroom. And after mortgage, property tax and insurance, I don't know how much money I'll have left over to pay my expenses in Vermont if my income there is not adequate. And then there is the issue of emergency expenses for the house.

My plan has been to either rent for a while, and/or to buy a multi-unit property and live in one of the units. I can't do that if I don't sell my house in Brookyn. But if I sell my house I can never return to it, although I could always return to Brooklyn if I wanted to. I guess I'd buy one of those condos that are springing up all over the place. But those condo units are more expensive than a house, or even two houses, in Vermont.

I doubt I'd want to return to Brookyn once I leave. But you never know. It is NYC and it is home.

I am attached to my house because it has been home for most of my life - my parents bought it when I was about 2 years old. I later inherited it. It is a 1925 development house, nothing special. Not a custom built house. Not especially architecturally interesting. But it is solid and stable and it is in a good neighborhood.

I have been wanting to sell it and move for a long time, but until last year I had no idea of where I wanted to move to. And I had to finish my professional training, i.e. school, work experience, therapy institute. Fortunately, the house has risen in value over the years, and if I sell it and invest the money properly, I can do well. I think I could sell it pretty easily, because of its location.

You are right about doing work that I like. I doubt I could be effective in doing what I didn't like, even if it were lucrative, or potentially lucrative. I once left a potentially lucrative job as an insurance agent to return to social work. I had thought I would make more money in sales, but I discovered I hated it. I don't like selling and I don't like insurance. I was not effective. But some of the things I listed in my original post are things I might enjoy. I really don't know if a social work job will pay the bills unless I have 1 or more side jobs/businesses, and it takes time to develop a private practice in a new area.

[tkln]

Arel, you and I are in such similar situations it sometimes frightens me.

I have lived in my house since I was 5, and we are also trying to figure out whether we should sell/rent or what. My parents bought the house in 1978 for $72K, and we could probably sell it for about $900K now (we did put a significant amount of money into it the last two years, thinking we were staying put). My fear is not moving; it's moving and then not being able to come back. We live in a great neighborhood and I know we would never be able to afford to buy here again if we sold...

I do, however, have the added situation of my mother...she still lives with me, but would not be able to handle VT full time. So we are also trying to figure out where she would go...

I think we may end up renting, at least for a year, just to see how things go. We also have the added advantage that we do own a condo in Stowe, and are planning on at least spending some time there for a while to test the waters. Unfortunately, I don't think Stowe is a good indicator of what it's like to live in the rest of the state.

[goatwoodward]

Bear in mind that although the pay may be less than in other states for the same work, the cost of living is also much less than a place like NYC (or the DC metropolitan area, which is where I'm from). You can buy a nice house in Vermont for $200,000.

If you do decide to buy rental units, Burlington has a housing crunch due to the students UVM is adding every year. Every year, the freshman class sets a new record number of students and a couple years later, many of those students want to live off campus. Finding a good rental is cutthroat in both June and August/September.

[arel]

Originally Posted by tkln

Arel, you and I are in such similar situations it sometimes frightens me.

I have lived in my house since I was 5, and we are also trying to figure out whether we should sell/rent or what. My parents bought the house in 1978 for $72K, and we could probably sell it for about $900K now (we did put a significant amount of money into it the last two years, thinking we were staying put). My fear is not moving; it's moving and then not being able to come back. We live in a great neighborhood and I know we would never be able to afford to buy here again if we sold...

I do, however, have the added situation of my mother...she still lives with me, but would not be able to handle VT full time. So we are also trying to figure out where she would go...

I think we may end up renting, at least for a year, just to see how things go. We also have the added advantage that we do own a condo in Stowe, and are planning on at least spending some time there for a while to test the waters. Unfortunately, I don't think Stowe is a good indicator of what it's like to live in the rest of the state.

I don't think I've been to Stowe, but it is in Vermont, so you can explore the area from there. You are fortunate in that you have a condo there. That gives you a lot of options you wouldn't otherwise have. But I wouldn't think that a condo in Stowe is like living in an estabished town with a normal town life, although I could very well be wrong about that.

I am fortunate in that I don't have to think of other family members' needs, at least not human ones. I have cats whose needs I need to think about. It is very disruptive for cats to move, as they are attached to familiar places.

My biggest issues are my attachment to NYC, to my own familiar home, and, as I have begun to realize, to my love of cities. Cat issues are more manageable, although it is painful to think about upsetting my cats to that degree. One of the cats is diabetic and I worry about his health and about finding a good vet for him in Brattleboro.

Brattleboro has a lot of urban amenities, but it is not a city. Keene and Northampton are nearby, but they are not major cities. The closest major city is Boston, 2 1/2 hours away. I don't think I would like to live in a bedroom community of a city. It would have a lot of the problems of a city with few of the city's amenities. I guess, living in southern Brooklyn, I sort of live in a bedroom community now. There is urban crime and congestion, but I have to travel for about an hour, more or less, to get to anything in Manhattan. And then the same amount of time back. But I do like listening to birds in the morning rather than traffic noises, which I had to listen to when I lived in Manhattan. And I am near the Salt Marsh Nature Center and the nature walk there. That area used to be a dump. The esturary there, which we called "the polluted lake" when we were children, is now a wonderful place. It has been restored to its natural state. The nature trail and Nature Center are now used for walks, for running, for sitting, for bringing a meal to eat, for nature education, nature-related civic engagement, and community activities. There will be an art show this weekend. Local art, just like in Brattleboro! I think I'll go. I think I have a cold coming on, so I doubt I'll be going to Vermont this weekend.

The problem is, the minute I find something I like here, it becomes a point of attachment to Brooklyn and New York. It is as if all the reasons to move fade into the background. I counter this by writing things down. I am compiling a master list of things which Brattleboro offers that New York doesn't, and which New York offers that Brattleboro doesn't. And I'm compiling a third list, which is what I can get in both places.

Like you, I fear not being able to come back if I want to. In addition, I have the burden of indecision. (I feel like Hamlet on the Hudson, which is what they called Governor Cuomo when he was indecisive about running for President). Should I or shouldn't I? I love cities, and I have some trepidation about moving to a small town, although there are things about Brattleboro that make it more than a small town, and I like certain aspects of small town life anyway. Also, Brattleboro is not that small, and has lots and lots of transplants, so I would not be intruding on a tiny, already cohesive group. I think a lot of my indecision is based on serious thought and risk management, but, to be honest, I have never been an empire builder in the decisiveness department. It was a major decision to turn down that job in the South Bronx, and it took me a week of internal struggle to make it. But I did make it. Whatever....

Ideally, I would like the best of a small rural town and a big city. I can hear the chorus on the Forum now: "Move to Burlington! Move to Burlington! Move to Burlington already!" Burlington is a great place, and you can have easy access to Montreal, and even Quebec City. Maybe, though, Brattleboro is better for me. It is a genuine small rural town, with a lot of urban amenities and with access to NYC and Boston. There are other reasons to move to Brattleboro which I don't think I've shared on the Forum.

If I leave Brattleboro, I may end up in Burlington after all. But not yet.

[GypsySoul22]

One good point of moving to Vermont:
No more driving through the Bronx/Brooklyn/Long Island mess to get anywhere on a trip!!

I hope to go to Quebec sometime next summer!

[arel]

Or riding on a hot, crowded subway that gets stuck.