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This could easily lead to laws against other bad parenting behaviors. And so on.
And it could also lead to children being taken from their parents.
Communities tend to establish what is "normal" behavior. By any standards, there are such things as "bad parenting behaviors," and it is up to a community to determine how best to deal with them. I have seen some parents (who know how bad pediatric asthma is for their kid) nevertheless smoke in the home, in the room with the child present, and there is no recourse other than sweet talk to make them change their behavior. However, there is a strong likelihood that after the child has wound up in the intensive care unit that the state might take action to remove a child.
There does not need to be a system that takes children out of the home when a parent breaks the law, but there should be steps in place to bring the parent up to community standards of responsible parenting when smoking is involved, much as we already have with fines for driving with a child not secured in a car safety seat, court appearance for subsequent violations and jail time when a child is injured as a result.
Communities tend to establish what is "normal" behavior. By any standards, there are such things as "bad parenting behaviors," and it is up to a community to determine how best to deal with them. I have seen some parents (who know how bad pediatric asthma is for their kid) nevertheless smoke in the home, in the room with the child present, and there is no recourse other than sweet talk to make them change their behavior. However, there is a strong likelihood that after the child has wound up in the intensive care unit that the state might take action to remove a child.
There does not need to be a system that takes children out of the home when a parent breaks the law, but there should be steps in place to bring the parent up to community standards of responsible parenting when smoking is involved, much as we already have with fines for driving with a child not secured in a car safety seat, court appearance for subsequent violations and jail time when a child is injured as a result.
"bring the parent up to community standards of responsible parenting"?
the system could be set up to take children away from parents who smoke.
even if the parent smokes on the front porch, for example, because outdoor air is next on the list.
they are already proposing smoking bans on patios at bars.
and they have already passed bans in parks.
ok
what about parents that feed their obese kid nothing but fast food and let them play video games all the time?
what about parents that feed their obese kid nothing but fast food and let them play video games all the time?
the slippery slope concepts seems to elude you.
When the community standard is, "feeding junk food to obese kids is harmful to them," you will have parents a lot more sensitive to their children's nutrition, and they could be at risk for severe punishment (depending on whether Republicans are in power).
However, at this time it is not a community standard by any means. Commercial advertising ensures that both parents and children will see junk food and video games as desirable. The number of people in this state who know the facts about these two concerns is quite small, too small to influence community standards at this time. So, if you happen to be among the vast majority who either believe or don't evaluate the ads, you can consider yourself safe.
Why does someone say it's OK if they die from drinking but not cigarettes?
Drinking does kill people, I think the issue is someone drinking, unless they drive and end up killing someone only kills themselves. Cigarette smokers and second-hand smoke do kill other people. That is the point. I think it is absurd that smoking and drinking is legal and marijuana is not. I have not personally ever used it but know a lot who have and Ive never seen them kill anyone while driving nor have I seen the smoke kill other people if inhaled in a secondary manner.
This could easily lead to laws against other bad parenting behaviors. And so on.
And it could also lead to children being taken from their parents.
And pets being taken away from their owners.
I'm glad I wasn't taken away from my parents.
And I'm glad I still have my dog.
I think as smokers you need to realize and ADMIT it is harmful to others then make the right choice. If you can't do that for your kids then maybe DHS steps in and educates you and helps you to understand that it is dangerous.
Let me ask a serious question, and don't give me a BS answer.
Is it ok to play Russian Roulette with your children's lives or the lives of others? Explain to me how, in your opinion, that is ok? Also why can you just not separate yourself from everyone else if it is your choice to smoke? Why is it that difficult?
Because indeed, I don't think it is difficult at all, I think it is laziness pure and simple.
Communities tend to establish what is "normal" behavior. By any standards, there are such things as "bad parenting behaviors," and it is up to a community to determine how best to deal with them. I have seen some parents (who know how bad pediatric asthma is for their kid) nevertheless smoke in the home, in the room with the child present, and there is no recourse other than sweet talk to make them change their behavior. However, there is a strong likelihood that after the child has wound up in the intensive care unit that the state might take action to remove a child.
There does not need to be a system that takes children out of the home when a parent breaks the law, but there should be steps in place to bring the parent up to community standards of responsible parenting when smoking is involved, much as we already have with fines for driving with a child not secured in a car safety seat, court appearance for subsequent violations and jail time when a child is injured as a result.
Exactly, the point I was trying to make however, you put it so eloquently!
It is bad parenting, I also think if you are home alone and you are drinking enough to impair driving is irresponsible as well. Just in case there was an emergency what are you going to do? The state can and has taken kids away or charged the parent with neglect. In these cases I feel cigarette smoke should be treated the same,. I don't think at first they should be taken away but if it keeps happening then obviously some intervention on behalf of the children needs to happen or a stiff fine or something. There are a lot of things that can happen in the blink of an eye that good people get in trouble for.
Some people just do not care enough about others including their own children. They care more about what they want or how it inconveniences them. It is a shame.
When the community standard is, "feeding junk food to obese kids is harmful to them," you will have parents a lot more sensitive to their children's nutrition, and they could be at risk for severe punishment (depending on whether Republicans are in power).
However, at this time it is not a community standard by any means. Commercial advertising ensures that both parents and children will see junk food and video games as desirable. The number of people in this state who know the facts about these two concerns is quite small, too small to influence community standards at this time. So, if you happen to be among the vast majority who either believe or don't evaluate the ads, you can consider yourself safe.
I absolutely think the ads to entice children or adults for that matter should be banned myself. I am not a tree hugging hippie, even though I have some wonderful friends that are!! (and they live in Boulder, haha) However, our children rarely drink pop, I can't even remember the last time I bought Kool-aid type crap. We make them drink mostly water and some juice and milk. We do not buy all the snack crap, fruit chews, pop-tarts, real sugary crap cereal, etc. etc. Our middle son, he is 12, is a bit chunky. Not sure if that is just a pre-puberty thing that happens a lot or if it is because of his stomach problems he has. I am not too concerned about it, he will get taller and will address it later if he doesn't thin out. I definitely know it is not from what he eats. So, i do not worry much.
There are parents, in my opinion, who should be educated about these things, however, these types of people I know, do not care, they are impoverished and live off of the government and not very educated. However, some people do care but they do not have the means to buy healthy stuff. How is it that buying healthy fruits and veggies is about 3 times as much as buying a 'boxed' dinner that can feed your family. Sometimes people have to buy that because they do not have the money to eat as healthy as they would like. We aren't rich by any means, we just make it a priority.
I do know a woman who had her three children taken away because she was morbidly obese and so were all three of her young children. She said it was genetic. The doctors worked with her for a couple of years, trying to teach her what to cook, Soonercare (medicaid) even paid for a nutritionist to come to her home and to teach her how to shop etc. She just didn't follow it. The kids were taken away and within a years time they had lost a significant amount of weight and were doing much better. She went through parenting classe and got the kids back and they went back to being on the track where they were before. Started having the major medical issues again, they all had high blood pressure, pre-diabetic, etc. etc. The state had to step in again and she lost her children. It is sad because all she had to do was do right by her children and she wouldn't do it.
To me, smokers are the same. They know they shouldn't, but it is just easier to sit your arse in the recliner with your pop or beer and light up instead of getting up and going outside away from everyone.
Some tobacco users find it very easy to quit by smoking cannabis instead. Cannabis is non-fatal & it has hundreds of proven medical benefits. In oil form, the benefits multiply, including up to 96% cure rate for stage 4 cancer. But I do feel those who can't seem to feel good without tobacco, should be allowed to smoke it in designated areas. I wonder if govt will go so far as to say you can only smoke in 1 room in your house & children must be kept out of that room? They have the tech to see through walls, so they could arrest or fine tobacco or cannabis users in their own home. Best wishes, all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrugalYankee
They can't get a handle on serious crime so the Vermont legislature is turning ordinary citizens with poor judgment into criminals they can target more easily.
On the lighter side, the same legislature voted to decriminalize marijuana, so maybe a joint would be acceptable.
Some kids can get addicted from 2nd hand smoke & suffer withdrawal symptoms if they go too long without it. Maybe it's cruel to force withdrawal symptoms on people of any age. And smoking parents wonder why great fun should be limited to those 18+ when the minimum age law was never enforced 30 years ago. If a kid asks smoking parent(s) if they can try one, how do they decide what age, since it's unlikely a police officer or CPS will just pop in at any moment?
Govt has decided for business owners on smoking policy. Wonder what most think about that?
I fear a day when tobacco use is prohibited in 99% of outdoor places *and* in vehicles. Imagine a smoker driving down an interstate & they see a sign "Next designated smoking area 100 miles". Imagine the extreme dangerous speeding! With kids in the car! The unintended consequences must be thought about.
But I am much more pro-cannabis as safe, healthy & still much good feelings. Still, 42% want cannabis illegal & only 22% want the much more harmful tobacco to be illegal. Sense could come soon as I think VT soon legalizes MJ, along with rest of new England.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AguaDulce
Yes, just like the respect you would show owners of private businesses. Let them decide. The nonsmokers have plenty of places to chose from.
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