[AguaDulce]

Originally Posted by Oriz

No, it's really not the same. For one in the size of the space which makes a difference and how close you have to be to the smoker and the smoke, the number of windows and how accessible they are, the child also has a choice to leave for that time whereas they cannot leave the car and then there's enforcing it which is much more impossible in the home.

Do I think it is right? No, I think it is borderline child abuse. Actually now that I think about it again while I don't think it might be the best idea to have a specific law for it or send cops after them, I do think it is something child protective services should keep an eye on whenever they visit a home.

The smoking bans that already exist were put in place to protect the workers--to ensure they are working in a safe place, free of smoke.

By the same token, your home, where you raise your children, will also soon be under scrutiny. Just like your car.

You think it would be okay for child protective services to come into your home and take your children if you smoke inside?

[Oriz]

Originally Posted by AguaDulce

The smoking bans that already exist were put in place to protect the workers--to ensure they are working in a safe place, free of smoke.

By the same token, your home, where you raise your children, will also soon be under scrutiny. Just like your car.

You think it would be okay for child protective services to come into your home and take your children if you smoke inside?

Is it harmful for your child if you smoke inside the house?

Isn't that their job by definition - to protect the children?

I mean they could be given a couple warnings first, talked to about the dangers - etc.

[AguaDulce]

Originally Posted by Oriz

Is it harmful for your child if you smoke inside the house?

Isn't that their job by definition - to protect the children?

I mean they could be given a couple warnings first, talked to about the dangers - etc.

Is it harmful to children if you:

allow children to eat nothing but fast food?
allow children to play video games all day?

loudly play gansta rap in the home?

vaporize nicotine indoors?
smoke cigarettes or vaporize on the patio or front porch of your house?

home-school them, but only teach creationism, not evolution?


Do you understand the slippery slope concept?

[Oriz]

That concept does not fly when it comes to smoking, sorry. There are zero excuses to smoke in your house with little children inside. The door isn't that far away, make a few steps and smoke outside. If children can be taken away for being beaten and/or having long term harm caused to them that can cause them to even die in the far or even near future, how is it different with smoking? smoking does all that too.

If a dad can be taken to jail for child endangerment cause he drank and fell asleep on the couch how is it different?

you want to engage in a disgusting habit, do it without hurting others, or expect consequences.

[AguaDulce]

Originally Posted by Oriz

That concept does not fly when it comes to smoking, sorry. There are zero excuses to smoke in your house with little children inside. The door isn't that far away, make a few steps and smoke outside. If children can be taken away for being beaten and/or having long term harm caused to them that can cause them to even die in the far or even near future, how is it different with smoking? smoking does all that too.

If a dad can be taken to jail for child endangerment cause he drank and fell asleep on the couch how is it different?

you want to engage in a disgusting habit, do it without hurting others, or expect consequences.

If you just want to talk about smoking, fine.

FACT: There are laws about smoking outside already. Even private residences. There are proposed bills that make it ILLEGAL to smoke outside. On a sidewalk, on a patio or on a stoop.

If they make it illegal to smoke in a home or car where children are present, the next thing will be patios and front porches. Then the next thing will be vaporizers.

And this is all okay to you?

[Oriz]

Let me make it clear exactly what I think.

Smoking in your house or car with all adults present = disgusting but OK.

Smoking in your house or car with kids present = NOT OK.

Smoking outside your house on your own property out in the open air = OK.

Smoking outside in public like at a mall(or any shopping area, church st. included), bus stop, school, etc = NOT OK.

Basically it comes down to this - you wanna smoke? Smoke in a place where people actually have the option and choice to get away from you.

[AguaDulce]

Originally Posted by Oriz

Let me make it clear exactly what I think.

Smoking in your house or car with all adults present = disgusting but OK.

Smoking in your house or car with kids present = NOT OK.

Smoking outside your house on your own property out in the open air = OK.

Smoking outside in public like at a mall(or any shopping area, church st. included), bus stop, school, etc = NOT OK.

Basically it comes down to this - you wanna smoke? Smoke in a place where people actually have the option and choice to get away from you.

Smoking outside your house on your own property out in the open air with children present. That's okay with you? Why does your protection of children stop there?

You believe that it's not okay to smoke outside, at a farmer's market, for example, because people don't have "the option and choice to get away from you".

But it's okay to smoke in front of your children outside. Even though they don't have "the option and choice to get away from you".

[Oriz]

But they do. They can be in the house. or they can walk further away from you in the outdoors. it's a thin line but the line has to be drawn somewhere. That's where I draw it. Smoking laws have nothing to do with people's freedoms. Nobody gave people the freedom to hurt other people. That would be like saying you should be free to shoot someone

[AguaDulce]

Originally Posted by Oriz

But they do. They can be in the house. or they can walk further away from you in the outdoors. it's a thin line but the line has to be drawn somewhere. That's where I draw it. Smoking laws have nothing to do with people's freedoms. Nobody gave people the freedom to hurt other people. That would be like saying you should be free to shoot someone

Children need to be supervised. Which means in sight, and close enough to grab. They do not have the option or choice to leave their parents presence.

[Oriz]

Smokers will use every excuse. That's why it's a disease.