[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Let's try this again using little words with very few syllables so maybe you can understand it.

The census bureau tells us there are 132 million households in the United States.

The census bureau tells us that the median household income in the United States is $53,046

This means that there are 66 million households making more than $53,046 and 66 million households making less than $53,046.

So the median household earns $53,046. That is solidly middle class. You can easily qualify for a $200K mortgage. Half the country is doing better than that.

Take out the top 1 percent that owns 40 percent of the nation's wealth and the numbers drop significantly. I know what a median is. I also know how easily stats can be deceptively skewed when you have lots of low numbers and some very high numbers. You're trying to paint a pretty picture with deceptive numbers in defense of a disturbing distribution of the nation's wealth.

[timberline742]

Well a median wouldn't be skewed much by removing 1%. A mean would. Not a median. Removing the 1% of the top of the population would have almost no effect on the median.

[arctichomesteader]

Removing the top 1 percent removes about 40 percent of the nation's wealth. Removing the top 20 percent of earners eliminates 93 percent of the nation's wealth.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Removing the top 1 percent removes about 40 percent of the nation's wealth. Removing the top 20 percent of earners eliminates 93 percent of the nation's wealth.

We're talking median here. This would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

Furthermore, let's remove the taxes the top-20% pay. The system completely collapses because the bottom 80% hardly pay any taxes at all. Nobody said life was fair. The beauty of the United States is that it gets out of the way of the top-5% who drive the economy. If we lived in the People's Republic of Arctichomesteader, we would have a backwards 3rd world economy where the people who do all the heavy lifting to drive the economy are prevented from doing so.

People who fail to grasp the concept of median likely lack the 21st century job skills to earn the median income and resent the people who do.

[AmILost]

At the very least, I hope this thread is serving as a good math lesson for people reading it.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

We're talking median here. This would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

Furthermore, let's remove the taxes the top-20% pay. The system completely collapses because the bottom 80% hardly pay any taxes at all. Nobody said life was fair. The beauty of the United States is that it gets out of the way of the top-5% who drive the economy. If we lived in the People's Republic of Arctichomesteader, we would have a backwards 3rd world economy where the people who do all the heavy lifting to drive the economy are prevented from doing so.

People who fail to grasp the concept of median likely lack the 21st century job skills to earn the median income and resent the people who do.

52 percent of Americans in 2013 made less than 30,000 and 72 percent made less than 50,000.

Wage Statistics for 2013

All far below the median income you cited. Median can be skewed. It doesn't tell us what's really happening for the average person.

It's the top 5 percent behind the offshoring that is destroying our economy, exploiting those in other nations as near-slaves (or actual slaves), turning their land into toxic waste dumps where environmental rules are absent, attempting to turn the average American into wage slaves 19th century style. In turn the global trade these people have brought about destroys our country in other ways, such as the destruction of our forests with invasive pests and diseases (billions of chestnut trees lost, along with ash trees, elms, hemlocks, maples, white pine, and more). The top 5 percent are quite literally destroying our country with the games they play financially. If you want third world look at the places their economic games to get richer have left as wastelands: Detroit, MI, Gary, IN, and so forth. Life is not fair but there is no reason to accept the system being rigged in favor of a tiny percent of the population.

[AmILost]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

52 percent of Americans in 2013 made less than 30,000 and 72 percent made less than 50,000.

Wage Statistics for 2013

All far below the median income you cited. Median can be skewed. It doesn't tell us what's really happening for the average person.

He was citing household income, and you are citing individual wage earner income.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by AmILost

He was citing household income, and you are citing individual wage earner income.

You can't have a rational discussion with people who can't comprehend the basic facts.

Only about 7% of all wage earners max out their Social Security. That means 93% of the workforce earns less than $118,500. So where do all those 5%-ers come from with their $175K+ household income? Surprise, surprise. Most don't make 6 figures. They're married. They went to college. Their spouse went to college. They both have jobs that pay $75K to $100K. They work hard for that money. Long hours. Lots of responsibility. I find it pretty hard to get worked up with class envy over working couples who are modestly successful.

[PCALMike]

Post-war America was not a backwards economy and neither is Germany and Scandinavia. In all of these economies, the so-called "heavy lifters" or "job creators" or whatever the latest buzzword for the unimaginably rich are, is taxed at a much higher rate, while the middle class who drive demand is prospering and the economy let a far higher share of the population reach their potential, to the benefit of the society and everyone.

Letting the rich treat the economy as their own playground, living in their own bubble, while everyone else is demonized as lazy or stupid is a sign of the Latin-americanization of the economy. Or the the epitome of the 3rd world. America can do better than this. That's why Bernie Sanders is the man America need.

[cgregor]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

You can't have a rational discussion with people who can't comprehend the basic facts.

Only about 7% of all wage earners max out their Social Security. That means 93% of the workforce earns less than $118,500. So where do all those 5%-ers come from with their $175K+ household income? Surprise, surprise. Most don't make 6 figures. They're married. They went to college. Their spouse went to college. They both have jobs that pay $75K to $100K. They work hard for that money. Long hours. Lots of responsibility. I find it pretty hard to get worked up with class envy over working couples who are modestly successful.

The problem with trying to paint the top 7% as worthy of pity is that the relative poverty of the bottom 95% of that group skews the income figures down: In 2005, the top quintile's average income was $150,000; the argument was that we shouldn't increase their taxes if they actually didn't earn a lot more than the fourth quintile.

However, within the top quintile in 2012, the top 6.4% could be divided into subgroups-- those making less than $200-250,000, those making that much or more and the top 400 households. The first group, had 11 million households and averaged $210k; the group right above them averaged $3.1 million, and the top group averaged $434.3 million.

So we can see how talking about the financial stressors on a family in the top 7% masks the reality-- including the 6.6 million families who make less than $200k is misleading.