[jesse713]

I was at a Christmas party having a conversation about snowblowers and a nice couple asked if we had references...for the snowblower. This is another example of the divide between the traditional Vermont virtues of self-reliance, community, ingenuity and wisdom, born of hard living and those of people who can't conceive of a life without a mega-store (they dream of that life, without the skills to achieve it). Does it occur to anyone that the scenery is no the only thing that matter to us. Vermont is an identity, our values, history and communities are not negotiable. I imagine plenty of liberal transplants shed tears daily on the plight of Native Americans, yet think nothing of assuming their ideology and culture is more appropriate than ours. If you want a glimpse of your utopia, take a ride to Burlington. Once you get past the traffic, smog and degenerates, you'll see its just like the place you're trying to leave. You can't regulate, mandate, legislate the magic that Vermont was, it was born of the absence of those very things. This is why taxes are high, yet the state is deteriorating in many ways. Try voting for a Vermonter, who sounds a little different, speaks direct and knows nearly everyone or used to before all the neighbors,well...acted like flat-landers(You don't know any better. I'd be sympathetic if you didn't vote).

[Sherylcatmom]

It sounds like you have reasons to feel bitter about the ways that Vermont has changed. I want to point out that the description of people from elsewhere is painted with very broad strokes.

In the case of Burlington, the college intentionally attracts many people from elsewhere who then fall in love with the area and want to stay. Some wouldn't change a thing. Some, as you point out, want to make it over according to their fantasies.

Where I live, my husband and I support small, local businesses and safety for all residents, human and nonhuman. We know plenty of Vermont natives, some of whose families have been here for generations, who are calling for all the amenities they find when they visit friends and relatives in Florida, Texas, and California. They want what they see other Americans enjoying, and they want it brought into Vermont.

When I go to Montpelier to meet with legislators about issues that are important to me, many are from Vermont and many are from other states. Most of them seem to care deeply about helping to create a livable, affordable Vermont, though they sure disagree on how that should best be done. (I haven't seen their disagreement divide them according to who comes from Vermont and who doesn't, but rather honest differences of opinion and other motives.) Sometimes their strategies that do get passed into law don't work out as planned. This last part is true in every state I've lived in and every political system I know of.

I don't see Vermont's issues as a problem of people from other places ruining it for people who are from here. Plenty of Vermonters want and benefit from second-home markets and the influx of wealthier people into Vermont. Many don't. I think there are allies and disagreements across the board.

When we start dividing our world into two kinds of people (e.g., traditional Vermonters and everyone else), I think we make things worse. If someone truly believes it would be better to close the borders and prevent free access between the states, or to give Vermont natives more rights than transplants, then I think they might be avoiding the fact that not all native Vermonters share the traditional values they cherish, and not all outsiders want to ruin the state.

Change is the only constant. The Vermont that existed before now was also only there for a number of decades. Before that it was another kind of place with other residents, human and nonhuman, and I don't think they called themselves Vermonters.

[Targo]

I use to be very bitter about how VT has changed but then I realized that NYC started as one log cabin. It's called "change" and for better or worse it's going to come.

I'm not bitter anymore but I'll take the "old" VT over the new VT any day.

Trust me, I can live without Home Depot/Wally World/Olive Garden/etc./etc.

I know how to drive on a snowy road and how to fit two trucks passing on a very narrow dirt road.

The noise from barking dogs/chain saws/dirt bikes and gun fire doesn't "infringe on my rights".

If I slip and fall on a sidewalk that hasn't been shoveled/salted/sanded, I'm not suing anyone.

I know that cutting down trees won't "ruin VT forever" and that wildlife benefits from timber cutting not climax forests.

Guns don't scare me.

[Sherylcatmom]

Targo, if you can imagine such a thing, I agree with everything you said and I am a native of . . . Miami Beach. We may disagree about things, too. But that doesn't mean either of us "doesn't belong." That's why I'm saying, it's not Us and Them or Natives against Others, unless someone wants to make it about that.

[Sherylcatmom]

Originally Posted by jesse713

I was at a Christmas party having a conversation about snowblowers and a nice couple asked if we had references...for the snowblower. This is another example of the divide between the traditional Vermont virtues of self-reliance, community, ingenuity and wisdom, born of hard living and those of people who can't conceive of a life without a mega-store

When I lived in Miami, Boston, and New York City, often new visitors or residents would arrive and be totally unfamiliar with "how things are done here." I don't recall anyone telling them that they didn't belong or judging them for being on the other side of an imaginary divide. Instead, we let them know the customs of their new place and left it up to them how to behave.

When I moved to rural New Hampshire in 1988 (I came to VT in '96), I was a lifelong city kid and definitely didn't know how things were done there. The locals (including many transplants) helped me learn. Sometimes they laughed at my misconceptions, but I never felt disrespected. The kindness and welcome of New Englanders, as well as the lifestyle here that is so comfortable for me, kept me here. And here I will stay.

BTW, when my parents were growing up in Miami Beach, it was a small town where everyone knew everyone and most businesses were owned by locals. Even if it had stayed that way, I probably would have left because of the weather and flat terrain, but I'm guessing that many Floridians have gone through the same kind of "people from elsewhere ruined our state" just a few decades earlier than Vermonters.

[Targo]

I get along fine and have many friends that weren't born in VT. The oh-so-common issue is people moving to VT and then demanding the type of infrastructure they left behind. The demand for that infrastructure is what has turned many areas of VT into much different places then they use to be and likely still would if not for the people that demanded the change.

That and they want VT to be like a photo in VT life magazine. In VT life, dogs don't bark and guns don't go bang and trees are never cut down.

It's not "my" state and people are welcome here and change it but it's funny to watch people recreate what they left behind........and then demand no more change after they've gotten the change they wanted.

[Sherylcatmom]

Originally Posted by Targo

It's not "my" state and people are welcome here and change it but it's funny to watch people recreate what they left behind........and then demand no more change after they've gotten the change they wanted.

My friends who live in the SW US, many of whom were not born there, are bemused by the many people who move to the SW for their health and comfort, but who then grow giant lawns, wasting precious water and recreating allergens they'd sought to escape. Sigh. Probably happens in some version everywhere.

[Sherylcatmom]

Originally Posted by jesse713

I imagine plenty of liberal transplants shed tears daily on the plight of Native Americans, yet think nothing of assuming their ideology and culture is more appropriate than ours.

Very interesting choice of criticism. Are you really saying that the plight of native Vermonters is more important than than of Native Americans? Didn't native Vermonters (and every U.S. settler who is not Native American) usurp the ancestral homes, resources, and culture of Native Americans?

I don't think we have to decide whose plight is more important. I think everyone is entitled to respect and compassion.

[Targo]

Down south the thing that gets eyes rolling is someone saying, "well this is the way we do it in fill in the yankee state here."

[chaz longue]

Originally Posted by jesse713

... If you want a glimpse of your utopia, take a ride to Burlington. Once you get past the traffic, smog and degenerates,...

Which "degenerates"?