[october2007]

Originally Posted by bkwriter

Sorry to drag this out, but the root cause is still poverty. Lots of chronic addiction and mental illness in, say, prosperous suburban enclaves. But you don't get people carping about it and finger pointing, do you?

Sorry but I disagree- It’s mostly fueled by drugs with some mental illness also. At least that’s what’s happening where I am. Maybe different where you are.

[bkwriter]

What's fueling the drugs and mental illness?

According to the Federal Reserve, in a 2017 report, "Four in 10 adults, if faced with an unexpected expense of $400, would either not be able to cover it or would cover it by selling something or borrowing money. Over one-fifth of adults are not able to pay all of their current month’s bills in full. Over one-fourth of adults skipped necessary medical care in 2017 due to being unable to afford the cost."

I live in Vermont, with an 11% poverty rate (below $16,000/year for a couple; ridiculously low, especially in a state known for its high cost of living, so no doubt the real poverty rate is higher). That's lower than the national average by a couple percentage points. But I see poverty everywhere. And like everywhere else in the U.S., Vermont has an opioid epidemic.

Why? Is it a lifestyle choice? Genetic defects? Laziness? Life is extremely stressful for people who can't afford a decent life (safe and affordable housing, decent transportation, decent medical care, a good education for their kids, regular vacations, enough income to save for retirement, etc.). It pushes people over the edge into drug abuse, crime and mental illness.

Want to end homelessness, panhandling, druggies on street corners, and all the disturbing things everyone else in this thread objects to? End poverty.

[Watchman57]

Everyone focuses on drugs, mental health issues, criminal behavior, laziness/choosing the "lifestyle". Well having experienced homelessness myself..btw i do NOT do drugs/alcohol not a criminal no serious mental health issues and most certainly did not choose it for the "lifestyle". Life happens loss of employment no savings health problems and no health insurance no family support. Lack of full time or decent paying job combined with no affordable housing puts alot of people in tents, cars, couch surfing. And once homeless looking for jobs is tough because few wanna employ homeless because they don't trust them and think they may be unhealthy/hygiene challenged. In VT if your homeless with drug/alcohol/criminal/seriously mentally ill you get priority..if your just homeless without these you get shuttled aside. Best place in Brattleboro to score drugs use the system to get free housing and drift...GroundWorks! Enforce anti loitering/panhandling ordinances, crack down harder on drug dealers, more FT better paying jobs, more affordable housing and investigate/audit GroundWorks..so they do the mission right!

[Phorlan]

bkwriter,

I agree with you. When people are affluent, or at least financially settled it's much easier for them to seek care and treat any alcoholic or drug problem. Poverty is truly the root of all evil.

[Veritas Vincit]

The thing you guys are ignoring is that a drug addiction will often *make* you poor. It's a very expensive hobby, and once you're 100% hooked on it it's going to be more than you can afford especially if your ability to perform a job steadily is increasingly reduced. Plenty of kids from the middle-class who end up on the streets due to drugs. All kinds of things make people druggies, legions of poor people aren't druggies.


The idea that all you have to do is just throw money at the situation and those problems is part of what has caused this escalating crisis all over the country.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit

The idea that all you have to do is just throw money at the situation and those problems is part of what has caused this escalating crisis all over the country.

No it isn't. The cause of our escalation of spending is due to our spending unwisely and counterproductively. We wait until there is a crisis to address it. We could, quite easily, save a ton of money through things like single payer health care, and investing in our communities in proven ways that prevent people from ever getting into drugs in the first place. But, profits. Our society makes a lot of profit both off of the vices, but also through the exorbitant rehab costs that are both less effective and several times more expensive than those in many Western European societies.


It's straight up placing profits before people.


I was in Brattleboro this past Sunday coming back from Burlington, and there is nary an issue. Never noticed an issue of any significance there. A half a dozen to a dozen people loitering about, barely a blip.

[harry chickpea]

timberline, thanks for that last line keeping it local to Vermont issues. A shift of topic into a broader national issue would force the closing or moving or deleting of the thread.

[wantastiquet]

I was in Brattleboro in August and expected the panhandling/homeless situation to be much more from what I have read in the local paper and online groups. I was never approached for money, saw several folks camped out across from the co-op but they never bothered me. When I lived there 2006-14 there were always areas that were sketchy and questionable people on the streets. I've been in Asheville, NC since 2014 and there's the same problems here with panhandling. Those with musical talents choose to busk and with the huge amount of tourism can make $50-80/hour downtown. I prefer the Brattleboro vibe and community to that of Asheville which is why we will be moving back in the spring even with the panhandling and opiod use that goes on.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by timberline742

No it isn't. The cause of our escalation of spending is due to our spending unwisely and counterproductively. We wait until there is a crisis to address it. We could, quite easily, save a ton of money through things like single payer health care, and investing in our communities in proven ways that prevent people from ever getting into drugs in the first place. But, profits. Our society makes a lot of profit both off of the vices, but also through the exorbitant rehab costs that are both less effective and several times more expensive than those in many Western European societies.


It's straight up placing profits before people.


I was in Brattleboro this past Sunday coming back from Burlington, and there is nary an issue. Never noticed an issue of any significance there. A half a dozen to a dozen people loitering about, barely a blip.

I’m not in Brattleboro often but I’m in Rutland frequently. Slightly bigger town with slightly bigger problems. The poverty, drug, and alcohol problem is quite visible. I think it’s more about lack of opportunity. I think a slice of the population just gives up. The only solution I can come up with is a drastic improvement in pre-K through 12 public education. People need 21st century job skills. Public education has failed them.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

I’m not in Brattleboro often but I’m in Rutland frequently. Slightly bigger town with slightly bigger problems. The poverty, drug, and alcohol problem is quite visible. I think it’s more about lack of opportunity. I think a slice of the population just gives up. The only solution I can come up with is a drastic improvement in pre-K through 12 public education. People need 21st century job skills. Public education has failed them.

I think education is a part of the problem, but a relatively small part. My nephews got great educations in Vermont public schools. They were ahead of me in math, etc in high school and my education experience was from one of the top metro west Boston suburb systems. But education without opportunity... its hard to drive oneself when one doesn't have hope. So, I went to UVM for my first undergrad degree, and so I was surrounded by many Vermonters. I'll tell you, out of the ones that excelled, or heck, even just graduated, almost none (the exceptions were for those with family businesses or started their own) stayed in VT. I would have liked to, but, jobs. I moved to Madison after. I think you're largely seeing the few that couldn't get out. There are well documented ways to change this, but our society won't, because everyone sees themselves as an individual in the rat race and see opportunity as a zero sum game... gotta get mine. Instead of the societal issue it is that can be addressed if we work in tandem for each other.