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I found this podcast and wanted to continue the conversation here, what are peoples thought on moving to or leaving Vermont?
I have always had a draw to New England for its close to Earth lifestyle and lush wilderness. Looking into making a final move out of NJ and Vermont is at the top of the list.
Great question(s)! Thank you for asking. I created a rant, below, because it's a passionate topic for me. I haven't lived there for most of my life but I will always be a native Vermonter.
This is not directed at you, OP; it's in response to your linked article about the two women who hated Vermont. One was adopted as a girl by a rural family and the other came for two years from Minnesota (!) recently to "change the culture" of Burlington. Here are my impressions:
I was born in, and grew up in Vermont, close to Burlington. I had a total of two Black classmates in 12 years of school before college. (I also had Korean, Hispanic, Indian (from India), etc. classmates.)
One of my Black classmates, a girl, was treated like ... a regular kid. I really liked her; she was a lot of fun. She was best friends with one other (white) girl whose father was a university professor. And after a year she was gone. Her father likely was doing a one-year stint at the university or something like that and she might have had that in common with her best friend. My other Black classmate was a boy who was pretty popular - kind of a partier and fun to be around - and was treated perfectly normally, from what I could see.
My Black classmates might not have had the same (positive, I believe) Vermont experience had they grown up farther from the city. But it's the same all over. Compare rural France or England to their cities. Rural people are different: they're less dependent on others, while having more serious and urgent responsibilities for animals, land, wells, septic, snow removal, etc., that their urban "counterparts" don't comprehend. Therefore, they might have less patience for the agendas and whims of "outsiders." And they don't appreciate anybody coming in and telling them they have to change. What do they have to change? It's unfortunate that a girl rescued from southeast Asia was teased because she was different. I was teased for being puny. Damn.
When I lived in Vermont, Burlington was a nice, small city with a few colleges and a university. Although Whites comprised the vast majority, there was a very diverse minority population from all over the world due to the university and its medical college. In the decades I've been away, the city has changed drastically. For one thing, it has become a haven for people moving drugs from Canada. Coincidentally, there is an observed need for someone to come in from a seriously maladapted location and tell the denizens how to live. I'm sure that was a great success. Perhaps 99.99% of Burlingtonians are busy growing up/striving/working/going to college/raising families, while the rest are busy ... moving drugs. Who, exactly, was her target audience?
Outsiders in any scenario might think they have a different perspective; that's great. Perspective can sleep late, call in sick, spend hours on social media, be bored, lie, cheat, steal. "Woke" doesn't plow the fields or the roads. Do you want food on your table? Don't f*** with us.
To answer your question, OP, I left the state because there were no jobs outside the retail/hospitality industries, none that were hiring even college-educated Vermonters. A lot of people still were being hired and moving in from outside for the great jobs. Worse, it was a terrible job market in terms of the economy/inflation/recession. So, despite having two professional parents and being educated, I had to leave my home state to find work. I intend to return one day. Watch out.
I found this podcast and wanted to continue the conversation here, what are peoples thought on moving to or leaving Vermont?
I have always had a draw to New England for its close to Earth lifestyle and lush wilderness. Looking into making a final move out of NJ and Vermont is at the top of the list.
Oye! That podcast was like something out of "Seven Days."
Title: "Why do people leave Vermont?" It then interviews four women and one black man, and focuses on how they did not fit in - sometimes intentionally. It says less about the state than the individuals.
Upon completing the read (I am not going to waste 35 minutes listening to whinging) my immediate thought was "Why doesn't this podcaster do a podcast on people who are gluten intolerant and have decided they wanted to eat bread every day?" The whining could be even more exciting to an audience.
I understand the idea of exit interviews for lessons learned. The lesson here is some people fit well in some communities, not so much in others. None of those interviewed were more than passing through the state. No interview was with someone who was third generation or had any family history in the state. There really are such people.
If contemplating a move to Vermont, the standard rules apply - rent first (good luck with that) before buying.
Oye! That podcast was like something out of "Seven Days."
Title: "Why do people leave Vermont?" It then interviews four women and one black man, and focuses on how they did not fit in - sometimes intentionally. It says less about the state than the individuals.
Upon completing the read (I am not going to waste 35 minutes listening to whinging) my immediate thought was "Why doesn't this podcaster do a podcast on people who are gluten intolerant and have decided they wanted to eat bread every day?" The whining could be even more exciting to an audience.
I understand the idea of exit interviews for lessons learned. The lesson here is some people fit well in some communities, not so much in others. None of those interviewed were more than passing through the state. No interview was with someone who was third generation or had any family history in the state. There really are such people.
If contemplating a move to Vermont, the standard rules apply - rent first (good luck with that) before buying.
The few people they interviewed weren't a good picture of the population of Vermont which is why I wanted to continue the conversation.
I have been looking at apartments, work and what will life be like. Been skiing in Vermont since the 80's, family had a ski house. Lived in Maine and just visited Vermont in June. Stayed in Waterbury and visited Woodstock, Manchester, Rutland, Burlington, and everything in-between for 5 days. Burlington was the same as every small city, nice place to visit but not live for me. Waterbury was really nice with its Historic Village, Stowe and 30 min to Williston.
Are you from or in Vermont?
I want to know what the people are like after I have stayed through a winter and proved my dedication to the state.
The few people they interviewed weren't a good picture of the population of Vermont which is why I wanted to continue the conversation.
I have been looking at apartments, work and what will life be like. Been skiing in Vermont since the 80's, family had a ski house. Lived in Maine and just visited Vermont in June. Stayed in Waterbury and visited Woodstock, Manchester, Rutland, Burlington, and everything in-between for 5 days. Burlington was the same as every small city, nice place to visit but not live for me. Waterbury was really nice with its Historic Village, Stowe and 30 min to Williston.
Are you from or in Vermont?
I want to know what the people are like after I have stayed through a winter and proved my dedication to the state.
7th generation (possibly 8th) Vermonter. Grew up in one of the places you mention and am a contributing member to the historical society there. Lived in two other places you mention. Moved numerous times and am retired in an area of north Alabama that is more like the Vermont I knew than the Vermont of today is. Creds enough for you?
7th generation (possibly 8th) Vermonter. Grew up in one of the places you mention and am a contributing member to the historical society there. Lived in two other places you mention. Moved numerous times and am retired in an area of north Alabama that is more like the Vermont I knew than the Vermont of today is. Creds enough for you?
What changed in Vermont for you to leave if you were 8th generation? Yes, you definitely have the creds and the generational Vermonter that Brave Little State should talk to.
What changed in Vermont for you to leave if you were 8th generation? Yes, you definitely have the creds and the generational Vermonter that Brave Little State should talk to.
It wasn't so much what changed, but what stayed the same. Lack of job opportunities, brutal winters with costly heating, lack of any speck of sunlight for well over one month in winter one year, road salt making cars last fewer than three years without starting to rust, general punitive attitude towards business and industry.
On a more personal level, I had seasonal affective disorder and undiagnosed thyroid issues that made cold and dark particularly miserable. It took twenty years in Florida before I fully thawed out.
It wasn't so much what changed, but what stayed the same. Lack of job opportunities, brutal winters with costly heating, lack of any speck of sunlight for well over one month in winter one year, road salt making cars last fewer than three years without starting to rust, general punitive attitude towards business and industry.
On a more personal level, I had seasonal affective disorder and undiagnosed thyroid issues that made cold and dark particularly miserable. It took twenty years in Florida before I fully thawed out.
Harry!! it is good to 'see you' here. I hope you are well.
Agree with all you've said.
I also suffer from seasonal affective disorder. I purchased a special light but have never been certain that it actually helps. Over the last few years I've tried to get outside much more on winter days when we DO have sun and I can get some exercise. One winter, I went to the gym all season, and that helped.
While I was still working (at home) it was a bit easier to handle, but now that I'm retired and want to be outside most of the time, facing a long frigid winter is a daunting prospect. I don't downhill ski anymore but am going to get some XC skis this season and try my hand at that.
I tried the light thing. It wasn't very effective. Bumping up my vitamin D intake over winter helped some, but it took going south to make the real difference. There is a reason Vermonters flocked to Florida in February/March. There is some change/nutrient/reset that happens with significant sun skin exposure for a few days. That effect goes beyond vitamin D supplementation.
Cross country was too much like work to me. Perhaps too many memories of bitter cold paper route days affected my attitude. I always wanted to have a greenhouse-like conservatory for sunny winter days, but never got the chance to build one. What floors me is that the current owners of both my parent's house and my house had windows replaced with much smaller ones. Some energy-freak dungeon dweller must have sold them a bill of goods.
Harry!! it is good to 'see you' here. I hope you are well.
Agree with all you've said.
I also suffer from seasonal affective disorder. I purchased a special light but have never been certain that it actually helps. Over the last few years I've tried to get outside much more on winter days when we DO have sun and I can get some exercise. One winter, I went to the gym all season, and that helped.
While I was still working (at home) it was a bit easier to handle, but now that I'm retired and want to be outside most of the time, facing a long frigid winter is a daunting prospect. I don't downhill ski anymore but am going to get some XC skis this season and try my hand at that.
I read in one of your blog posts that "Surliness" runs in VT along with the long harsh winters. I lived in Maine for 14 years and found the same and the same in NH. My visit to VT this summer to take a look outside of winter I was treated with the same surliness when they saw my NJ Plates.
Its the attitude of the people that deters me and probably many others to stay or move to VT over the winters. I like the snow and if you have a good group of friends to socialize with the winters aren't that bad. After a few years you realize some of your "Friends" are fake and their friends and family don't like you and you are ostracized when you stand up for yourself. I would be invited to parties and you were treated as an Outsider and could never really feel welcomed.
Being an outsider, I always was treated as expendable and the cost of heat would suck up any savings with the lower taxes so you really aren't saving anything. I was thinking of asking a question about the Surliness of some and see their response. Taxes, Weather, slower economy are all tolerable if you feel welcomed, but if the people don't want you there then there is no incentive to stay. The beautiful landscape will only carry you for so long.
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