[pucabear]

Like anywhere else in the country, if you have lived in the same place all of your life "it is all you know". But coming from somewhere else that has any type of growth or development, it is difficult once you are used to those conveniences.

[chaz longue]

Originally Posted by arel

Vter, thanks for the encouraging post. At least I found it encuraging, as I am not in manufacturing or in tourism. (I am a mental health professional.) There is so much bitterness on these threads about the low salaries and high cost of living, that it would seem you need to be independently wealthy to survive in Vermont.

Don't let the naysayers get to ya, arel.

[chaz longue]

Real vermonters don't drink Grade A Fancy

[pucabear]

Originally Posted by chaz longue

Don't let the naysayers get to ya, arel.

You can criticize the "naysayers", but the pollyanna, rose-colored view is not helpful when you have moved based on that type of information, and find out there is more to an area than you find on the beautiful calendars.

[chaz longue]

I can't help the fact that Burlington, for me, works perfectly. In fact there's no place else I'm aware of in the whole country that has nearly everything I need - and is such a short distance from what I need that ISN'T found here. And I'm talking about my own very specific needs here, not the needs of most people.

Burlington Vermont is not for everybody. In fact there are a GREAT number of things that aren't to be found here that a lot of people value. But that's what I like about the other places I love to visit in this country and in the world: thier uniqueness.

I don't value Vermont because it's anywhere USA. I value it because for all of it's faults - it just ain't like anywhere else.

Heck, if we had one fewer Winter month, I'd never be able to afford living here we'd be overrun.

[tree climber]

Been in Vermont for three decades now. Here's my take:

Vermont is the most rural state in the US. That's right, even more rural than Alaska. How rural a state is is determined by the percentage of people who live in cities versus the percentage that live in the country. Also, the topography of Vermont has determined its growth. Unless you live in the Connecticutt or Champlain Valley, there aren't many straight, flat roads. So, good east-west transportation routes don't exist. Cellular transmissions can be very iffy. And unless you live in a city, forget about high speed internet.

Property taxes are high because of education costs and the influx of wealthy out-of-staters that have build large luxury homes, thereby driving up neighboring property values. This has caused many natives to move to more rural parts of the state, or out of state entirely. There are exceptions, of course. The Burlington area has job opportunities, but the cost of living and real estate there is very high.

The population of the state is just over 600,000. So even though Vermont is small, there is a lot of open space. But there is also a lot of bureaucracy and environmental regulation here. That's why many manufacturing concerns bypass Vermont and build elsewhere.

When I first moved here, there seemed to be a balance between protecting the environment and promoting enough business for people to survive. Sure, you weren't going to get rich here, but it was a great place to start and raise a family. Sadly, that has become more difficult.

I guess it all depends on what you're looking for. Burlington, Montpelier, Middlebury, and Brattleboro are the cultural centers and where some of the better paying jobs can be found, depending on what you do for a living. But they're also some of the highest cost-of-living areas in the state, and Burlington and Brattleboro in particular have major drug problems.

Okay, I want to wind this up. So here are some conclusions, in a nut shell.

If you're an arrogant snob, liberal or otherwise, then move to some other state, because the locals will take your money and laugh. Or you can move to some Vermont community will the liberal elitists hold sway, and you fit right in.

But if you are an independent sort, flexible and willing to adapt, you can make it here, with or without money. The real riches here are in the mountains, valleys, rivers, and lakes. Many rural folks barter. So you can trade your services and time for what you need. I climb trees for a living. Sometimes I trade for maple syrup. Sometimes for truck repair.

One thing I know for certain. Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine are going to be good places to live when the sh*t hits the fan. People who can grow their own food, hunt, and live off grid will be survivors when all those city folks wake up and realize food doesn't grow in Safeways.


Gotta go. The maple syrup woman just arrived.

[nhyrnut]

Originally Posted by tree climber

Been in Vermont for three decades now. Here's my take:

Vermont is the most rural state in the US. That's right, even more rural than Alaska. How rural a state is is determined by the percentage of people who live in cities versus the percentage that live in the country. Also, the topography of Vermont has determined its growth. Unless you live in the Connecticutt or Champlain Valley, there aren't many straight, flat roads. So, good east-west transportation routes don't exist. Cellular transmissions can be very iffy. And unless you live in a city, forget about high speed internet.

Property taxes are high because of education costs and the influx of wealthy out-of-stater's that have build large luxury homes, thereby driving up neighboring property values. This has caused many natives to move to more rural parts of the state, or out of state entirely. There are exceptions, of course. The Burlington area has job opportunities, but the cost of living and real estate there is very high.

The population of the state is just over 600,000. So even though Vermont is small, there is a lot of open space. But there is also a lot of bureaucracy and environmental regulation here. That's why many manufacturing concerns bypass Vermont and build elsewhere.

When I first moved here, there seemed to be a balance between protecting the environment and promoting enough business for people to survive. Sure, you weren't going to get rich here, but it was a great place to start and raise a family. Sadly, that has become more difficult.

I guess it all depends on what you're looking for. Burlington, Montpelier, Middlebury, and Brattleboro are the cultural centers and where some of the better paying jobs can be found, depending on what you do for a living. But they're also some of the highest cost-of-living areas in the state, and Burlington and Brattleboro in particular have major drug problems.

Okay, I want to wind this up. So here are some conclusions, in a nut shell.

If you're an arrogant snob, liberal or otherwise, then move to some other state, because the locals will take your money and laugh. Or you can move to some Vermont community will the liberal elitists hold sway, and you fit right in.

But if you are an independent sort, flexible and willing to adapt, you can make it here, with or without money. The real riches here are in the mountains, valleys, rivers, and lakes. Many rural folks barter. So you can trade your services and time for what you need. I climb trees for a living. Sometimes I trade for maple syrup. Sometimes for truck repair.

One thing I know for certain. Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine are going to be good places to live when the sh*t hits the fan. People who can grow their own food, hunt, and live off grid will be survivors when all those city folks wake up and realize food doesn't grow in Safeways.


Gotta go. The maple syrup woman just arrived.

And this is what makes VT so nice. Not the politics or the Views. But the people Who live there. Not so much the moved there ones. But the true Vermonters. The ones who care and help. The ones that adapt and become VT instead of liberalizing it. Screw that Pirus and that SUV. Find a native Vermonter and, you have found a friend.

[harry chickpea]

tree climber, you've got it. You understand the state better than many natives. Hope the maple sugar woman gives you a little sugar.

[tree climber]

LOL...good one harry c. I didn't shovel the drive today. She may need to stay overnight.

[seanpecor]

Originally Posted by arel

I know about the poor cell phone service. I once left a message to confirm that I would be at a particular restaurant, but my contact didn't get it in time and never showed up. I wonder if the cell phone service could be improved, or if that is impossible because of the terrain.

It's not the terrain. I live in SW/Central Virginia and even in the mountains here I never drop signal. In Vermont you have Act 250 which makes it more expensive to construct towers, and when you do propose towers, there is a vocal minority that comes out and heavily resists tower construction in Vermont. The result is tower spread is minimized which impedes saturation of the terrain.

Sean