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If you read my follow-up posts, I wasn't trying to detract from the fact that Vermont is expensive, just that everything is relative. I'm well aware of the situation in VT, but just because there are more high-paying jobs in NYC does not mean that everyone who lives here has one of those jobs. The housing costs and property taxes here are astronomical and unless you are making $100K or more a year, you are going to be suffering.
I don't make a lot of money, and if I wasn't living in the house my parents bought 30 years ago, I would be a displaced NYer like so many others who can't afford to live here anymore. And it's not just VT or NY - it's all over the country. The middle class has been forgotten - for us, BOTH the Lexus and BMW are expensive!
I wouldn't dream of driving a Lexus or BMW. I couldn't afford the car or the insurance. I would be afraid of car theft or carjacking. I don't feel the need to say "Look at me. I'm successful". I've never driven a luxury car like that, though.
I did drive my mother's big Buick, though, and after that my little Subaru hatchback (an old one) felt like a tin can. But the Buick had an intermittent stalling problem, due to a design and/or manufacturing defect, and it was dangerous to drive. It would just turn off while in motion. I had to shift to neutral and then restart it, while the car was in motion! I got used to it. I couldn't sell it because of the defect, unless I endangered the buyer, and others, by not warning about the problem. Thankfully, the car died at 86 K miles. Some luxury.
Right now I drive a 1998 Nissan Sentra, and I am happy with it. It doesn't look or feel like a tin can, and at the same time it does not call attention to itself. Before I got this car, I drove a 1988 Honda Accord. I drove it into the ground.
I am a professional, but I am a social worker. Social workers, like teachers, do not make "professional" salaries.
I am not about to be a displaced New Yorker, not yet, but rather a New York transplant. I have posted elsewhere about my reasons for wanting to move. Yes, the cost of living is very high in NYC, but so is the cost of living in Vermont, and the incomes are lower.
Whoever told you that has something against Vermont or likes to lie. I live in Vermont, and my family has lived here in Vermont since the 1790s. I ski all over Vermont and buy the greatest, Grade A Fancy syrup and have plenty of money left for all other costs in my life. I can even afford those above average taxes that Vermont has to offer. And frankly, I get sick of the poor, illiterate, wood-chuck Vermonted stuff. We are no different than anybody else. There are docters, business tycoons, and ski bum heirs and heiresses with billions to spend.
This thread is interesting.
I wonder how many people (in any state) can enjoy things in their own 'resort' areas like 5 star inns?
I live on Long Island and I can't afford to hang out at spas in the Hamptons or do lots of trips to Manhattan for clubbing, shopping, and eating out. It's getting more and more expensive to just get a decent meal at a diner here for less than $25.
How many people in California can afford those expensive beach houses and so forth? Do you think the average guy is shopping on Rodeo Drive?
Each state has vacation and resort areas--some are more exclusive than others.
The regular joe really has no chance of doing those things, be they in NY or Vermont.
As far as REAL maple syrup, you can buy it here in the store (Long Island) in a small bottle for about $4.00. To me that's a lot but once or twice a year, it's worth it. Nothing beats REAL syrup..
Most people in Vermont get free maple syrup because they know someone in the business. I've never met anyone who needs to pay full price. And as far as skiing, almost all VT schools and colleges give out free season passes for good grades, and everyone else usually goes during the work week or in the off peak season so it's not so crowded. Everyone needs to slow down on their quick judgements of Vermonters.
Dear Sent1nel,
Thankyou for your post. Describing your family situation helps me judge the costs of VT living. I am currently in MN. This is a beautiful state but I "pine" away at times for my native New England. Despite the fact that I discovered this forum because I wish to return to the Southwest for a less humid environment, I stumbled upon the Boston forum and posted my rather extensive thoughts on a social issue - not sure people will even read it.
A friend who moved with his wife and four children from the Chicago area told me that he thinks it is expensive (out of our reach really) to live just about anywhere these days. I was mentioning that I had been priced out of CA and had planned on moving to Reno but was surprised to find out how expensive it is in the two major NV cities (they live in Vegas now). In those forums people say that it is expensive, but not as much as Los Angeles. My silent response was that since I couldn't afford LA, that was not very encouraging. I see the same types of posts here.
I visited this forum out of curiosity. Newspapers and "people in the know who haven't done it" say Burlington is wonderful. A great progressive place to be, unless you can't take the cold. My assumption was that it is expensive. Bingo. I checked into the NH forums yesterday to help my understanding of New England cost of living (aside from Boston) relative to my experiences in So. CA., MN, and what I have researched on NM and Reno. The Southwest is also expensive, with crime rates that literally determine your daily safety if you cannot afford to buy your safety - $1200/mo rent for one bedroom in So CA. Then the auto costs...
I was surprised at the NH posters. After living there during my high school years, the libertarian values I expected (I am adopting some myself). But the judgemental values were eye-opening. I was an engineer, moved to CA for "the big job" following the summer of college graduation. I became disabled with a chronic illness and have been fighting, with good medical insurance, for decent medical care since then. CA was run by managed care although that is changing slowly as people wake up to the atrocities (not my word, a Doctor's) that come out of it. It should be a wake-up call but I see the same thing happening here in the Midwest. Yet ~90% don't care, not an overstatement, as it is easier to not accept this and restrict one's focus on daily concerns. The attitude in NH is similar, but in NH they are more likely to admit it (some are). In that forum people out of the mainstream (~I work hard and deserve my 350k home, you should work as hard, too or you don't deserve it~...)
are "referred to" VT and MA forums. No one wrote in about disabilities, but about being in a gay relationship, etc. but out of the mainsteam NH life. So it's good that some Vters like flatlanders, NH is sending lots there...
My Vegas friend is correct. It is just hard anywhere, unless you take over your parents' home. Since I have seen this in so many forums, the common denominator must be that unless you are in the top 10% of the earners in this country, this is life.
That being said, I am happy that you turned to computers rather than drugs or tv to pass the long VT winters!!! It should serve you well as you pave your way through our apparently common economic situation in the US.
Enjoy college, my friend. Experience the best of truely wonderful years and then go on and explore the country. With your initiative, ability to express yourself, and intelligence you can get your job to serve as your springboard. I am grateful that I went out to the West Coast right after college. The Pacific is beautiful. I had friends in LA and San Diego - everyone knew someone there..., while I lived in the then affordable "Inland" area, just 60 miles east of LA. I was away visiting my friends in the beach communities so often, when my New England friends visited me, I didn't know where to take them locally for a nice dinner. A great experience.
Good luck to you. Thanks for your willingness to share a native Vermonter's view. Your pertinent (sp?) evaluations benefit us, even if....
you are "only" eighteen!!!
question...if you were to choose between vermont and new hampshire to work in as a teacher, which one would you choose? I have been on the fence about this but can't seem to figure out which is best..and I have heard some horror stories about both states.
question...if you were to choose between vermont and new hampshire to work in as a teacher, which one would you choose? I have been on the fence about this but can't seem to figure out which is best..and I have heard some horror stories about both states.
I don't think anyone can really answer this question. Quite a bit depends on the individual districts and the people than administer and work there. I do know that of several teachers I have met many voice displeasure with the politicized nature of the profession. I imagine that this with other reasons accounts for attrition rates of new teachers with less than five years on the job.
Vter, thanks for the encouraging post. At least I found it encuraging, as I am not in manufacturing or in tourism. (I am a mental health professional.) There is so much bitterness on these threads about the low salaries and high cost of living, that it would seem you need to be independently wealthy to survive in Vermont.
I say, buy a small house. I went from having a 3000 ft house near Chicago
to a 1000 sq foot log cabin in Vermont. I was very concerned about feeling cramped, but since living here, I've never felt I needed more room. Makes me wonder why Americans feel the need for big houses?? I was one of them.
A smaller house is cheaper, less to heat, and can be vacuumed in about 10 minutes. I will say, if you buy a very small house, try and get a cathedral
ceiling in the living room. If I didn't have that, I'd feel cramped.
While we've looked into other places to live (even Virginia, care of Sean Pecor!), my heart belongs to Vermont...
Well then you get it. You've cut to the chase and really get it.
I've always found Vermont to be a magical place and I always wanted to move here. So I did. Perhaps a little too wide eyed and bushy tailed, expecting a utopia. I was put through the ringer and taken back to reality. A few money woes here and there, costly weather related repairs. I've looked at my water pipes in the basement when it was 20 below, hoping to hear no whistling or creaking. I've wished that I could go to a new restaurant every week like I could in Chicago. I've met my hated enemy, the deerfly. I've watch my heating oil gage, hoping it would make it through April, actually May. I noticed a lot more crime stories on the local news than I expected. I've parked my car in the bushes when it wouldn't make it up my icy driveway. It's not for everyone. Some won't be able to take the cold. Personally, I could never live in a hot and humid area.
But like an accounting statement, it's all about the bottom line. I love it here. I've been pretty happy ever where I've lived, but this is probably my favorite place. I just walked to the bottom of my driveway and noticed the last two cold nights really snapped the color of the trees so I'm going to hop in my car, ride through the Mad River valley to admire the foliage, and grab a sandwich at my favorite general store in Warren. That's why I love Vermont. I just like to look at it and be part of it.
question...if you were to choose between vermont and new hampshire to work in as a teacher, which one would you choose? I have been on the fence about this but can't seem to figure out which is best..and I have heard some horror stories about both states.
You have to make sure your certification is good in either (or both) states. I have a Masters from NY State and lifetime certification there but to get certified in VT/NH I would probably have to pay a hefty fee plus re-take teaching exams. I don't think I will do either right now.
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