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I grew up directly south of you on the south shore(Bayport). Out west and down south the new developments are planned to the extent that they include municipal services and they build the new schools, as I understand it they take the states per kid cost then add to it at the homeowners expense. Similar to school budget overrides in MA. What I've seen of the eastern LI stuff is relatively small clusters filling in what were by midwestern standards small fields. I don't have a problem with it personally. Why live next to a farm with pesticides and fertilizers seeping into the groundwater. Let them build houses it's a better use of the land and there is still room for boutique stuff like vineyards, do the farming out west where it is more efficient.
I grew up directly south of you on the south shore(Bayport). Out west and down south the new developments are planned to the extent that they include municipal services and they build the new schools, as I understand it they take the states per kid cost then add to it at the homeowners expense. Similar to school budget overrides in MA. What I've seen of the eastern LI stuff is relatively small clusters filling in what were by midwestern standards small fields. I don't have a problem with it personally. Why live next to a farm with pesticides and fertilizers seeping into the groundwater. Let them build houses it's a better use of the land and there is still room for boutique stuff like vineyards, do the farming out west where it is more efficient.
The downside to the building is that it is jacking up the cost of housing out there' people can't afford to buy in areas which were once reasonable, but now have attracted the chi-chi crowd (keeping on topic, this would be in correlation with the people who grew up in VT but can no longer afford to live in towns which have become 2nd home towns for out-of-staters.)
You have to remember that initially no one was living next to the farms -- just more farms. There was no one there to be subjected to the pesticides until the houses started sprouting up. The people who bought next to a farm should have realized what they were in for -- it's like buying next to a raceway and thinking that there won't be any noise or fumes
Why does every state have to be the same? It kills me how New Yorkers move to Vermont and then complain about having to support local shops. It would be nice to have one place on this green earth without a Wal-mart. Maybe Vermont is not the place for folk who need their weekly dose of stuff. America is becoming a homogenous gruel.
Why does every state have to be the same? It kills me how New Yorkers move to Vermont and then complain about having to support local shops. It would be nice to have one place on this green earth without a Wal-mart. Maybe Vermont is not the place for folk who need their weekly dose of stuff. America is becoming a homogenous gruel.
Out of curiousity, have you taken a poll of all relocated NYers? I would like to see the breakdown by age, income, gender, current location and former NYS residence location.
I, for one, do not want to see VT become the 'homogeneous gruel" that you would imply the USA is becoming. Local merchants can count on me to support their shops, but some of my neighbors can not afford to do so. I do want to see an economically viable state, capable of retaining it's young and old as well attracting big businesses which will support said same people.
Through this forum I have come to a better understanding of what makes VT and Vters tick, and I respect their choices as far as how to keep the state alive, so to speak.
What I don't understand is how you are slamming NYers, yet you left VT after a brief residence and left MA for southern pastures. In all fairness, can you please explain to me what makes your slamming me and other NYers appropriate, when you are no longer here?
One thing I see/hear/read is that VTers do not want out of staters coming in and telling them to keep the state as a green mountain playground. Neither you nor I really should tell them what to do, should we? I feel most comfortable showing the screw ups that have occurred in my corner of NY and using them as an example of how screwed up things can get. I have never come out in my VT community and said, "You can't do that!" However I have indicated that my NY community did that and subsequently we faced XYZ problems.
I was in Florida in April. Talk about homogeneous gruel. One chain restaurant after another. Huge billboards hawking 'Adult Nightclubs - topless AND bottomless" One town rolling into the next, thoroghfares lined by the same things: CHik a fill, Wendys, McD;s Target, Walmart, Chilis, Hooters, Walmart, Starbucks, etc. All companies which hire people for next to minimum wage and most of which offer little to no health benefits.
This is not the fate this NYer wants to see befall VT. I won't say DON't Do IT!, but I will keep on stating my disgust at the over commercialization of an area which must have been so beautiful before it became pavement fields of national corporate chains.
Being a native NY'er, be it 32 years ago, I really don't think transplants here want any of this massive sprawl that a few have nightmares about coming to Vt. First of all, sprawl and miles and miles of shopping, dealerships, etc cost money to build and rely on a population base with sufficient income to keep them operating. Vermont has neither and to be honest probably never will. To have select areas of the state with shopping venues of good variety would not clutter the state, it would provide jobs, and create revenue which would stay in the state to pay for essentials and all of the niceties that it seems long time locals, natives, and "flatlanders" all want. One only has to look at our crumbling transportation infrastructure and subpar power transmission grid, all problems which were duly noted twenty years ago, and ask why monies have not spent just to maintain it much less than to expand and improve it. Now with it being much more expensive to deal with combined with lowering revenues we have reaped what we haved sowed. It is also worth to note that several decades of these transplants via the ballot box have created the strict regulatory environment which now exists here.
Reading this thread makes me feel sad. I grew up in Brattleboro during the 1970's, but I'm not a native Vermonter. I was never treated like an outsider, and I knew plenty of kids who grew up skiing who weren't flatlanders. They just didn't get a new ski outfit every year, and we all shopped at the "ski/skate exchange." The adage about syrup is foolish (I've never heard it!), when you consider most native Vermonters boil their own sap, keep the B for themselves and sell overpriced fancy grade to vacationers. My farming friends used to make fun of the "rich kids" from out of state who used the fake stuff.
I understand though, when it comes to the issue of being able to afford to make ends meet and still be able to enjoy a fun lifestyle. I moved back home twice, the first time in my 20's and the second time in my early 40's. The first time was great. I had a fun social life and worked in the service industry, so I had cash to play with. When you're that young you don't plan for the future. At least I didn't. But the latter return was sobering to say the least. It's hard enough to uproot yourself later in life, but to try and find gainful employment was very difficult, as the job market is extremely competitive and the jobs aren't even that great. If you work in government, are a lawyer, MD or in the financial sector you can probably do pretty well in VT. If you are lucky enough to come from money you'll be fine. The reality is, (like in most rural areas) the industry and opportunities just aren't as plentiful as they are in a more urban area. I'm sure act 250 plays a strong role in this, but I'm not that political a person, so I'm staying away from that issue.
Drugs and joblessness are at what appeared to be at an all-time (pardon the pun) high, and my father has remarked that he's never seen so many young people milling about with nowhere to go and nothing to do. This is again, a problem in general that is amplified in a small rural community. Let's not delude ourselves, though. Vermont is traditionally a farm state and a place where cotton mills used to be. It wasn't until around WWII that tourism set out to attract people to come spend money. The romantic notion of VT comes from a little movie called "White Christmas." It isn't real, people! (Please read "Fast Lane On A Dirt Road" for a brief historical perspective on Vermont).
I can sense the bitterness in the tone of some of these posts, and believe me I understand. But part of living in VT is to eschew many of the "things" that we think we need to have a good life. Maybe this is just a rationalization for not being able to afford them, but maybe it's also a choice. I twice tried to make a move back home. I left again because I just couldn't find work that was nourishing AND payed my bills. I have cried, gotten angry and in general felt the same sort of bitterness expressed here. I have made my peace with it though. If I wanted to do without certain things I'd still be there. But I'm not willing to just "get by." It is disappointing that VT hasn't figured out a way to balance the need for industry and good jobs with wanting to protect the integrity of what makes it such a beautiful place. Until that happens, it will remain a playground for the affluent and a beautiful place to retire. I'll keep on visiting in the meantime, and enjoy what it means to me to love my home.
HI I am new here, I was moved to register to post about some of the places I have lived, and Vermont is a place I have lived 3 times.
The saying is: the local vermonters can't afford to buy real vt syrup or ski in vt. It is for the wealthy tourists.
Vermont is so very beautiful and it sounds like a dream to have a vermont house in the country, but it is tough to do. Taxes are very high, jobs are scarce, jobs don't pay well, groceries are ridiculous money, heating costs are high, the roads are not well kept, traffic is a nightmare on one lane roads, you can't see the sexual offenders online due to "their rights of privacy" so for all you know your neighbor is a level 3 pervert, there is a very high poverty level and lots of drugs everywhere. Also there is a lot more crime than they report, not the fairy tale you would believe.
My husband has family in Vermont, the Rutland/Bomoseen area. That is a pretty place but there is not much to do. Manchester is nice for shopping but expensive to live. Rutland has a major drug problem especially in the schools. Jobs are tight and do not pay much. My husband is the GM in a car dealership, so whenever we move to an area he can see the credit scores of the locals and their income, and in Vermont, you either make lots of money or very little.
We lived in Burlington/Essex Junction area, where a split level rance with 1800 SF from the 1970's will cost you $300,000!!
We lived in Newport Vermont where you can find more house for your money but there is NOTHING to do, no mall, no shopping, drive a hour to NH for a walmart, drive 45 min in canada for a mall or 2 hours to burlington. No jobs, lots of domestic violence, drinking and drugs, uneducated and impovershed people or wealthy homeowners that are only around for a couple weeks a year.
And the vermonters do NOT like flatlanders or outsiders. If you do not have a parent that was born in vermont or you were not born there, you will NEVER be seen as a local vermonter. EVER. You could live there for 50 years and you are just an outsider. We had many local friends who would tell us this. We have been all over vermont and it doesn't change.
We love the IDEA of vermont but when we move back it doesn't feel as wonderful as it sounded. We still visit friends there and love it now as visitors. So unless you make loads of money or like living very basic for a lot of money, don't move there. And also, lock your doors and look out for yourselves, it is not the utopia people think it is, crime is alive and well there.
we tried to live the vermont life 3 times and struggled. My husband makes great money but so much went out in just life expenses, too much.
Just a little quip coming from a Texan and only addressing one point you present....Vermonters LOVE me and likewise. It's all in the attitude.
My family has been vacationing in VT for over 30 years (since I was 2) and it's been my dream to live there...I try to take all sides to the story and while I know it's expensive, some of these posts make me laugh. Not because they are not true, but coming from NYC, a $300K 1700 square foot ranch is a BARGAIN. My 1300 square foot ranch can be sold for $750K, no problem. And taxes out in LI? $6K is a bargain as well...we had friends who were paying $14K a year in taxes...and that's not THAT BAD.
Posts like this turn up so frequently, not just on the Vermont boards but on others as well. I wish I had the time to challenge them every single time they turn up, but I don't. This is so misleading. It doesn't matter ONE BIT that a house in Vermont (or anyplace else) costs way less than your house in NYC. That comparison is meaningless. What matters, and the ONLY thing that matters, is the relationship between the cost of your living accommodations and the amount of money you make. If you move to Vermont, your income will almost certainly drop drastically, and you'll soon find out that your "bargain" isn't such a bargain after all. We've lived all over the Northeast, and on the West coast as well. One of the most expensive places we lived was Princeton, New Jersey, but it was also one of the best places we lived because we had comparably high salaries and job security. Another great place was Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Salaries were low (though still better than Vermont) but cost of living was ridiculously low. Everyone who reads these sorts of posts should keep in mind that what you have to pay for a house (whether more or less than where you live now) is only half the story. The other half is how much of a salary you can make and how it relates to what you have to spend. As others have pointed out, in Vermont cost of living is high and salaries are low.
It's not how much money you have, but what you get for your money. Honestly, I made the same or better salary here than I did doing the same job on Long Island, with much reduced costs and an overall higher quality of life. Not everyone's experience is the same, of course, and I was fortunate. Telecommuting is slowly changing the landscape. I was paid a very good salary by a UK company to work from home, so this skews the numbers.
I too grew up on Long Island, in Williston Park, but in the 50's. I can't even begin to tell you how much it has changed since then. The old Long Island was a paradise, especially the North Shore. Every time I go back, I lament the traffic and the loss of individuality in every town. I don't think we can ever see that kind of sprawl here, even in Chittenden county, because the real force behind Long Island's growth was, and still is, proximity to a city of over 8 million people.
People in the Hamptons used to rent their wonderful homes for a pittance during the winter. In the early 80's, I rented a house one block from the ocean in Bridgehampton for $350 a month. It was beautifully furnished with antiques. And make no mistake, there were several to choose from in this price range. Of course, in May, the rent went to something like $3000 a week, but winter rentals were plentiful at extremely low prices.
My friend in Long Beach was laid off last year, and I suggested a winter rental in the Hamptons to save money, but apparently they are all gone now. Nothing like that exists, because people now are able to live out there year-round. That is an amazing change. But I have gone so off topic, excuse me. But as a New Yorker, I came here to escape what I was seeing happening on the Island, and I hope to God that never happens here.
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