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Gotta disagree here. It is racial. If you are not black then you don't understand. I can say this because it's happened to me. I was taking classes at a well-known university in this area that had a lot of criminal activity on-campus and nearby. (muggings, car-jackings, etc.) Each time, I was walking with my classmates who were white. I am a professionally, well-dressed woman in my 40's. I was asked by the security officers (young, black) to show my i.d. and state what building I was going in. When it happened the 3rd time I let them have it. I told them to stop harassing me since they never asked my white classmates for i.d. I know how this young man feels and I do hope for a favorable outcome for him.
I think someone was asking to hear an example of racial profiling. This seems like a clear case of racial profiling.
Blatantly obvious, no doubt about it. Sorry you had to endure that RaisedWell. The signs are there, three times, and with white students who weren't asked at all any of the times. That is a clear case.
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However, back to the original case on here that was tape recorded. I just don't see any conclusive evidence of it.
I think this thread is going in two directions. People just saying that racial profiling exists, and others actually discussing this particular case. No doubt that racial profiling exists. But this thread is actually about this particular case. This particular case seems to imply that ANYTIME ANY black person is EVER questioned under ANY circumstances, it is racial profling.
This gets confusing for us white folks, as we also get stopped and questioned all the time as well, it just doesn't happen in black areas (unless they assume we're an addict in a bad area, but they wouldn't assume we are about to commit criminal activity in a black area). But us white people in every other kind of area, we're just as likely to get stopped and questioned for all kinds of reasons all the time.
I'm white, and I've had probably AT LEAST 30+ times or more I've been questioned by police or equivalent authorities for some matter or another (beyond security guard at the mall type of thing). I have NO criminal record though, and just a few speeding tickets. So, obviously 28+ times I wasn't doing anything wrong. Granted half of those stops were just a 'rolling stop' at a stop sign, basically the probable cause to pull you over to find out what you are about.
I've been pulled over by police with sirens 7-8 times SOLELY for looking suspicious in a neighborhood that they didn't think I belonged (not even a potentially minor traffic violation). Each time where I had the officer explicitly say 'do you know why I stopped you', and explained it was because I looked unfamiliar to that neighborhood. Generally happens in very affluent neighborhoods, or very poor neighborhoods. They'll usually state that there has been either a string of burglaries or that its a well-known drug trafficing area, depending on the neighborhood.
I've also been detained twice by immigration, once for six hours, and once for two hours (questionable passport stamps). Once I had police come to my house thinking I robbed a gas station. I've also had my car searched entirely four times in my life, twice by police dogs.
But, I will say, that if I were me AND black, I'd be pissed and thinking it was all racial profiling as I have no criminal record. Being that I'm white, I don't know what to think about my situation, especially compared to some guy at the mall.
Last edited by Tiger Beer; 02-16-2011 at 01:17 AM..
Gotta disagree here. It is racial. If you are not black then you don't understand. I can say this because it's happened to me. I was taking classes at a well-known university in this area that had a lot of criminal activity on-campus and nearby. (muggings, car-jackings, etc.) Each time, I was walking with my classmates who were white. I am a professionally, well-dressed woman in my 40's. I was asked by the security officers (young, black) to show my i.d. and state what building I was going in. When it happened the 3rd time I let them have it. I told them to stop harassing me since they never asked my white classmates for i.d. I know how this young man feels and I do hope for a favorable outcome for him.
You are welcome to disagree. However, telling me I don't understand is a cheap way of trying to suppress the discusssion in your favor.
There is something rather odd in stating that black people are racially profiling other black people. Sounds like yet another of the numerous intrablack struggles out there.
This is what I mean. I don't know the race of everyone responding, but like RaisedWell said, if you aren't black, you might not understand. It's not about what happens to people, it is the strategy that goes behind getting these people. Police use racial profiling as a tool to better fight crime. It is strictly off of assumptions. This isn't to say that profiling is always racial, but if you consider the comment that was made and how he looks, then it is easy to see that this was racial. The mere fact that he mentioned his dreads is a dead give away that this was racial. He took notice to his APPEARANCE. He saw the dreads and instantly assumed that because he was going in and out of stores, he must be doing something wrong.
The police look for certain things on a person, which in this case appears to be characteristics of an African American. He looked at his dreads, he possibly saw that he was wearing casual clothing, things that fit the typical criminal in this area. It's just simply stereotypes. Think about what your stereotypical criminal would look like. Here's a few to think about, what would a:
bank robber in Langley Park look like?
car jacker in Congress Heights DC look like?
person selling bootleg dvds in their restaurant look like?
terrorist boarding an airplane look like?
terrorist who bombs a government building look like?
Almost every race has something that we are stereotyped for doing. The way you know, is this an isolated incident? Well if it is not then, how do the other people who have received this treatment look? If they look similar you can deduce it is racial profiling, but if they don't then it could be just a bad business practice like you described. But it also can be clear based on the interaction with that person. By this officer making a comment about his appearance in indicates to me, and possibly others, that he was focused on his appearance. He took the time to notice how this guy looks. He didn't see him do anything wrong, he just saw how he looked. If we heard other people stepping up and saying this happened to them and they were a different race, we probably wouldn't be having this debate, but it hasn't happened.
And I'm amazed how people think that racial profiling can't occur amongst black people. Do you think all black people think that all of us our innocent? There are black people who think other blacks are the worst people in the world so why would being black disqualify a person from thinking that another black person could commit a crime. If you don't know what racial profiling really is, I would encourage you to read more about it. There are a few people commenting on this story that honestly do not understand what racial profiling is, and may never understand.
Excuse me!
Nobody is talking about the police and the ever-expanding definition of racial profiling as a whole. At least not me.
The subject is a particular instance where some black security guards stopped other black people. Please stay on topic.
I don't give two sh****s about racially profiling. I have been profiled, generalized, and stereotyped all my life my blacks, whites, hispanics and everybody in between. Its annoying, but at the end of the day, the Man stilll has to prove your guilty. A daunting task in this day and age.
This instance caught my attention because the main actors are all black. Yet its being tagged as racial. How can that be? This was not Officer Mullaney stopping Tryrone and Jamal. This is a dispute between a bunch of black people. Implying that whites are responsible is innaccurate, cowardly, and more than bit stupid.
Nobody is talking about the police and the ever-expanding definition of racial profiling as a whole. At least not me.
The subject is a particular instance where some black security guards stopped other black people. Please stay on topic.
I don't give two sh****s about racially profiling. I have been profiled, generalized, and stereotyped all my life my blacks, whites, hispanics and everybody in between. Its annoying, but at the end of the day, the Man stilll has to prove your guilty. A daunting task in this day and age.
This instance caught my attention because the main actors are all black. Yet its being tagged as racial. How can that be? This was not Officer Mullaney stopping Tryrone and Jamal. This is a dispute between a bunch of black people. Implying that whites are responsible is innaccurate, cowardly, and more than bit stupid.
You said all that but you never answered my question. Isn't it possible for black people to think that other blacks are capable of doing bad? That is the basis of this theory. You are mixing racism with racial profiling. TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Even though they aren't mutually exclusive, the two are generally not related. You don't have to be racist to racially profile someone. It's like I said, it is an assumption or a stereotype more than any animosity towards another person.
You said all that but you never answered my question. Isn't it possible for black people to think that other blacks are capable of doing bad? That is the basis of this theory. You are mixing racism with racial profiling. TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Even though they aren't mutually exclusive, the two are generally not related. You don't have to be racist to racially profile someone. It's like I said, it is an assumption or a stereotype more than any animosity towards another person.
Meatkins:
Black people are just that- people, that is human beings who like all human beings are infallible and prone to error. Therefore, to answer your question, YES, it is certainly possible, indeed completely normal, for black people to believe other black people are capable of doing bad. To think otherwise would not only be irrational, but contrary to everything we know about human nature.
As for this particular situation, the black guards had a suspicion seemingly based on the black guy's dreads. Personally, I think that a rather silly basis for suspicion as there is nothing new and nothing particularly radical about dreads. They are about as extreme as an Oxford shirt these days.
The example is akin to me thinking a white biker with leather and long hair is up to no good if he parks on my block when in fact he may simply be visiting my neighbor who likes Harleys.
As for racism and racial profiling being two different things, well, fine. Both are dependant on definitions that are constantly being tweaked, renamed, reworked, reinvented, and remolded. The goal post is moved ever farther into the horizon.
If you feel these black security guards were using race as the basis of their suspicion, then it sounds like there is more than a bit of self-hatred going on in the black community.
[quote=Moth;17892798 If you feel these black security guards were using race as the basis of their suspicion, then it sounds like there is more than a bit of self-hatred going on in the black community.[/quote]
Or it can simply be that the officers or guards are performing their duties as instructed by the police department and based on their standard operating procedures (whether written or unwritten).
It is interesting when discussions about racism are met with various and sundry retorts that blacks are racists too, or that they have issues with other blacks. No one is denying that. However, that is not what we are discussing. Racial profiling goes to the way law enforcement operates, and the perpetrators of this profiling can be the same race as the profiled. For the purposes of this conversation, self-hatred really is beside the point.
Or it can simply be that the officers or guards are performing their duties as instructed by the police department and based on their standard operating procedures (whether written or unwritten).
It is interesting when discussions about racism are met with various and sundry retorts that blacks are racists too, or that they have issues with other blacks. No one is denying that. However, that is not what we are discussing. Racial profiling goes to the way law enforcement operates, and the perpetrators of this profiling can be the same race as the profiled. For the purposes of this conversation, self-hatred really is beside the point.
Au Contraire. That is EXACTLY what we are discussing. This thread is not a general discussion or diatribe about racial profiling, whatever the hell that really is. Its about a specific incident caught on tape. And the incident features protagonists and antagonists who are all black. Yet, this has been tagged as racial profiling.
I have wondered how that could be. Three of you have responded by telling me I could not understand, changing the subject, inserting inaccurate information, slipping away, or speculating.
Not one of you can bring yourselves to tell me how one black person can racially profile another. Not one.
If black folks, and not a few white liberals, find racial profiling to be so unjust, so wrong, so bloody egregious, then why the hell are these black security guards doing it? Really, I would like to know. If that tape is true, then those black guards are not going through the motions with a wink and a nod. They are approaching this with a high level of seriousness.
And if it is what you say, then is it possible that profiling has simply become a legitimate, if imperfect tool? I mean if the supposed victims of it are now using it, well, that really changes the entire paradigm.
And bowian, nowhere have I said "blacks are racist too." One more time: Black people are human beings. Thus they are subject to same prositive and negative attributes as anyone.
Au Contraire. That is EXACTLY what we are discussing. This thread is not a general discussion or diatribe about racial profiling, whatever the hell that really is. Its about a specific incident caught on tape. And the incident features protagonists and antagonists who are all black. Yet, this has been tagged as racial profiling.
I have wondered how that could be. Three of you have responded by telling me I could not understand, changing the subject, inserting inaccurate information, slipping away, or speculating.
Not one of you can bring yourselves to tell me how one black person can racially profile another. Not one.
If black folks, and not a few white liberals, find racial profiling to be so unjust, so wrong, so bloody egregious, then why the hell are these black security guards doing it? Really, I would like to know. If that tape is true, then those black guards are not going through the motions with a wink and a nod. They are approaching this with a high level of seriousness.
And if it is what you say, then is it possible that profiling has simply become a legitimate, if imperfect tool? I mean if the supposed victims of it are now using it, well, that really changes the entire paradigm.
And bowian, nowhere have I said "blacks are racist too." One more time: Black people are human beings. Thus they are subject to same prositive and negative attributes as anyone.
I'm sorry, but I think Tiger Beer said it best when he said that there are two different arguments here. It is clear that you don't believe racial profiling happens amongst fellow African-Americans. Okay, that's your opinion, but we can't even debate this situation if you don't even understand what racial profiling is. You seem to think that racial profiling is the same as racism, again it is not.
To answer your question about these black 'security guards', which we have already established are police officers for the city of Glenarden, if your supervisor tells you to look for a certain type of person, who wears a certain hairstyle and wears certain clothes, are you going to argue against them? Your ability to examine these people could be the difference between you having a job or losing it. So if your supervisor tells you to look for this individual and you choose not to, but meanwhile a shoplifter that fits that description escape, guess who's losing a job? At the end of the day, these officers are going to do what they are told. Is it right? Heck no, but if you have to put food on the table then what choice do you have? With that said, this doesn't have anything to do with the race of the officers as much as it has to do with them completely an order made to them.
You have to think outside the box with this one. If you think life is about black people helping each other and loving each other and looking the other way for each other, then you clearly don't know many black people. We are the same people that have been labeled as Uncle Toms, House Negroes, Clarence Thomas, etc. etc. and you think skin color really matters to these officers. You need to wake up see the world for what it really is. Most black people are out to get theirs and they will pull another black person down if it means they get to get to the top. If you can't get past this and grasp this, then you will never understand this debate.
Clarence Thomas, that is hilarious. Never heard that one before. So, is it is a slur for conservative black person, or a term for someone who always agrees with the legal opinion of Antonin Scalia?
Clarence Thomas, that is hilarious. Never heard that one before. So, is it is a slur for conservative black person, or a term for someone who always agrees with the legal opinion of Antonin Scalia?
Clarence Thomas is a running joke and should be an embarrasment to not only the black community but to America. Conservatives staunchly oppose affirmative action. So when Thurgood Marshall retired, George H.W. Bush nominated Clarence Thomas, just because he was black and filling the "black seat". That is the definition of a racial quota, which affirmative action doesn't even do. Yet, since Bush was a Republican, he had to find a "black conservative". The result was Clarence Thomas, probably the least qualified black federal judge for nomination at the time who ideologically opposes affirmative action, but has benefitted from it his entire professional life. On top of that, Clarence Thomas (who complained that that black leaders were "watching the destruction of our race" as they "*****, *****, *****" about President Reagan instead of working with the Reagan administration to alleviate teenage pregnancy, unemployment, and illiteracy) as it turns out, sexually harrassed Anita Hill (who is black) and put a pubic hair on her Coke can. I guess he would know something about bringing down the black race!
Clarence Thomas is a microcosm of everything that conservatives claim affirmative action does that it actually doesn't do. And he's supported by conservatives! He's an unqualified misogynist filling a quota. So "Clarence Thomas" isn't a slur for "black conservatives", "Clarence Thomas" stands on its own.
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He's an unqualified misogynist filling a quota. So "Clarence Thomas" isn't a slur for "black conservatives", "Clarence Thomas" stands on its own.
