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Have you ever taught? I would highly recommend you take a day to at least tutor a child and see how your experience is. Teaching is one of the hardest jobs in our country. The actual things to learn are not difficult, but what is difficult is dealing with the behavioral issues, the learning deficiencies, lack of desire, inadequate resources, and any other problems that make the job challenging.
That's when parents are supposed to come in. Kids listen to and respect their parents more than their teachers. Even if they don't respect their parents as much as they should, they still respect their teachers less. let's face it. For most kids, the only place to get a good meal and shleter is at home with mom, dad, or both parents. And I'm talking about elementary age kids. By the time kids reach high school, they've pretty much formed the habits they will carry into adulthood.
I'm married to an educator and she wishes parents wouldn't make her job so hard by not making sure kids do their homework, pariticpating in conferences, and making sure the child understands the lesson. Parents can solve 90% of the behavioral issues. My wife taught 3rd graders and there was one kid who had his own laptop, game system, portable game system, flat screen TV, etc. Really? If you walk into the homes of kindergarten age children, how many books would we find in a child's room as appposed to a TV, game system , toys, etc.? Stay alittle longer, how many of those parents will sit down with their child and go over homework or teach their kid something new instead of plopping them down in front of a TV to keep them quiet?
No wonder teachers have it hard.
P.S. Side rant. Parents, please stop sending your children to school with lunches full of sugar. Kids can't conecntrate or focus on one thing for too long as it is. It's worse when they are hopped up on sugar. Remember, be careful how much sugar is in what you give them for lunch. You'd be surprised. Take the amount of sugar you consume in a day and cut it by two-thirds for your child. All these "fruit juices" and drinks ADD sugar. There's high fructose corn syrup in almost everything. You'd be surprised what you find in certain foods you think are healthy.
Well summarized by westside boy. Peers have an immense impact and will guide those in the middle or on the fence. Positive peer influence will move them up, negative will move them down. Average achievers around high achievers should do better than average achievers around low achievers, all things considered.
When I look at my high school classmates, many "did not make it out" although they had the potential, and it was mostly because of peer influence.
There will always be different levels of achievers. In school and in society. I think it's good to have a mix. And I don't necessarily think that low achievment is contagious. Or else I wouldn't be where I am today. Again, I think it's the value of education that is instilled in a kid at an early age.
I don't agree that lower achieving students take up too much of a teacher's time. Far too often, those kids are written off anyway. When I was in school, those who disrupted the class go sent home, or to the office. It didn't happen too often. Most kids realize that it's better to play with the rules rather than against them.
Prince George's County schools can be much better than they are. But not until there are enough parents who realize that they have the power to create change. Far too often, we say forget it and put our children in private school. How can school disticts be held accountable when parents don't have anything invested in them?
There will always be different levels of achievers. In school and in society. I think it's good to have a mix. And I don't necessarily think that low achievment is contagious. Or else I wouldn't be where I am today. Again, I think it's the value of education that is instilled in a kid at an early age.
I don't agree that lower achieving students take up too much of a teacher's time. Far too often, those kids are written off anyway. When I was in school, those who disrupted the class go sent home, or to the office. It didn't happen too often. Most kids realize that it's better to play with the rules rather than against them.
Prince George's County schools can be much better than they are. But not until there are enough parents who realize that they have the power to create change. Far too often, we say forget it and put our children in private school. How can school disticts be held accountable when parents don't have anything invested in them?
The No Child Left Behind AYP standards have really changed the amount of time a school has to spend on its lowest achievers. Even if 95% of your students meet the proficency standard in an area, the school is held accountable for 5% that don't. If you don't meet AYP for a certain number of years in a row, your school gets taken over by the state, teachers and administrators lose their jobs.
The result is that the kids that are doing well enough to pass the standarized test are left alone, rather than working with them towards their highest level of achievement. Instead, the teacher's and school's resources are spent frantically trying to get those lower academic achievers to pass so the school looks good on paper.
The whole system is idiocy (any surprise it was a GW Bush law?) because anyone who has ever taken Statistics 101 knows about the bell curve. That is what tests are, to see where you fall on the bell curve. By defintion, a certain percent are going to be towards the tail end of the curve, it is unavoidable. Any test that is made easy enough for EVERYONE to pass is a worthless test as it, by defintion, has to be skewed so far towards the end of the tail so those bottom kids can pass.
The second thing that makes NCLB stupid is that not every one is, or should be, in college prep mode. Career training makes far more sense for a large percent of the population. My 18 years of education looks great on paper, but I am put in my place everytime my sink leaks or car needs the oil changed.
I agree with the OP. Lets face it, until college, the academic knowledge gained in high school is fairly trivial. It's just the basics. it shouldn't require a high level of skill or knowledge to be taught to children.
I strongly disagree. Good foundation carry you a looooooonnnnng way.
Last edited by funkytrader; 04-06-2011 at 06:48 AM..
Location: Ft. Washington/Oxon Hill border, MD (Prince George's County)
321 posts, read 812,250 times
Reputation: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy
The No Child Left Behind AYP standards have really changed the amount of time a school has to spend on its lowest achievers. Even if 95% of your students meet the proficency standard in an area, the school is held accountable for 5% that don't. If you don't meet AYP for a certain number of years in a row, your school gets taken over by the state, teachers and administrators lose their jobs.
The result is that the kids that are doing well enough to pass the standarized test are left alone, rather than working with them towards their highest level of achievement. Instead, the teacher's and school's resources are spent frantically trying to get those lower academic achievers to pass so the school looks good on paper.
The whole system is idiocy (any surprise it was a GW Bush law?) because anyone who has ever taken Statistics 101 knows about the bell curve. That is what tests are, to see where you fall on the bell curve. By defintion, a certain percent are going to be towards the tail end of the curve, it is unavoidable. Any test that is made easy enough for EVERYONE to pass is a worthless test as it, by defintion, has to be skewed so far towards the end of the tail so those bottom kids can pass.
The second thing that makes NCLB stupid is that not every one is, or should be, in college prep mode. Career training makes far more sense for a large percent of the population. My 18 years of education looks great on paper, but I am put in my place everytime my sink leaks or car needs the oil changed.
Agreed. The ways NCLB have changed the schools into such a focus on "teaching to pass the tests", inability to remove ineffective teachers, increasing class room sizes and who is in their peer groups are my key concerns about going public...no matter what school district.
Have you ever taught? I would highly recommend you take a day to at least tutor a child and see how your experience is. Teaching is one of the hardest jobs in our country. The actual things to learn are not difficult, but what is difficult is dealing with the behavioral issues, the learning deficiencies, lack of desire, inadequate resources, and any other problems that make the job challenging.
Back to what the OP was saying, parents are responsible for behavioral issues and resources, not the school. Parents are lazy and expect everyone else to raise their child. When kids get in trouble, parents come out of nowhere complaining that they need something to do. If they are the parent, then why they can't give them something to do? There's so much a school can do, parents need to take responsibility and quit blaming everyone else. School is not a daycare and parents should stop treating like it is one.
I agree that parents do indeed make a difference. However, the children in Charles County are learning robotics in their public school classrooms. In order for my academically inclined child to receive that training in PG county, we have to join an outside organization. Children in a DC public school classroom in Tenlytown went to Alaska and did live webcasts of their experiences there. The furthest a PG county child can get with Straight A's is Camp Schmidtt, unless they win the county science fair or spelling bee (which isn't even available in all schools).
The point being, yes, you can encourage your children to excel and support them and their teachers to excellence, but the school districts vary vastly on what is included in that education. So while the schools can't do EVERYTHING, concerned parents find themselves on a constant treadmill of enrichment if their child is in an area with underperforming schools because they simply can't provide enough.
I am now and will always be one of those parents that select a home to raise my children based on what the community offers and that absolutely includes the schools. My oldest daughter is severely handicapped and has been in 3 different schools so far (military). I have seen what being in a school with overworked teachers whose student/teacher ratio is far too high, who have no money for school "extra's" and who basically let slide the disrepair their school is in. It did not benefit my daughter one bit. Being in such a school as that was depressing and stressful for her. She had less desire to learn, to socialize or to apply what she did know to her schoolwork. I worked with her each and every night on her work and she did wonderfully. But her grades continued to be poor. We went through 2 such schools like this before we finally made the choice to drive her a half hour from our home to an amazing school with wonderful peer reviews. Within the first month my daughter was a completely different child. She enjoyed learning, her grades sky rocketed and she was happy again. So yes, I would factor in the school's reputation before choosing to buy/rent somewhere. I am not going to send my children to a school that does not have the time, the money, nor the ability to properly nurture their brains. It is my job as their parent to teach them all that I know, and to learn anything I do not to guide them through life. But as professionals, which I am not, it is the job of the school to teach them the fundamentals of learning, to give them a base of learning that they can grow on. The time the teachers spend with a child is tantamount to that child doing well in school. As is the overall "personality" of the school, how much discourse and "crime" go on in the school. I believe that the extracariculars a school provides as well as field trips to places of learning, guest speakers and the "fun" things a school offers a child can change your child's outlook on school itself. I've been through the "bad" schools with my oldest and I am thankful that we learned quick enough from that so that our other 2 daughters were given the chance to go to exceptional schools. And do exceptionally in them. Oh, and as for the comment about parents with a high school diploma and nothing else... well I have no formal college education, by choice. I have been a stay at home Mother all of my children's lives. I took it as my job from God to nurture and guide them. My children are all incredibley smart individuals and it is as much from what my husband (who has a degree in Criminal Justice) and I have taught them as it is from the programs we have enrolled them in. My children aren't at a disadvantage because of MY education or lack thereof. I graduated with honors at 17 and could have gone on to do anything I had wanted. Instead I wanted to be a Mother and a Wife, that was my calling. I think it's beyond silly to stigmatize children based on their parents education. My husband's degree in CJ doesn't offer my children anything. Being a good parent and paying attention to the needs of your child as well as nurturing those needs is what makes a child bright and successful. That is the important thing. Not the lack of a piece of paper from a college.
Sure, schools should be a major factor in deciding where to buy, but the information provided on sites like greatschools and the Maryland Report Card are severely lacking. Scores tend to reflect mostly the socioeconomic status of the population of the school, and the administration and teachers' abilities to teach what is on the test. Assuming that you have reasonably bright and hardworking students, they'll be able to learn that information at any reasonably decent school. But if a school goes further and has a gifted education program, a robotics program, arts and music, enhanced science and social studies, etc., that's never going to show up on those websites.
And at what cost? When do these scores start to become self-fulfilling prophecies? When do enough parents who rely on these and care about the education of their kids stop buying at all in these districts, leaving them actually blighted, instead of just a diverse school?
I honestly worry about what it does to home values. Is our home going to sell for less because we're in a district with an elementary school rated at only five stars out of ten? I wonder how many parents are going to look further and realize that it's actually a pretty decent little school. I admit, I was apprehensive at my son starting kindergarten last fall because of the scores, but in reality, he has a great teacher, the kids at all of the levels are getting attention, and he's getting a much better than average education. And while there are a lot of kids whose parents don't seem to care, there's also a good population of "good kids". Frankly, if your kid is a "good kid", he's probably going to be friends with the other kids a lot like him.
Essentially what we need is a better way to rate schools. Or at least better demographic information. Don't just tell me how black kids compare against white kids, but tell me how the groups compare between household income level, or parental education level. There are exceptions, sure, and you can't measure "kids with moms who care" vs. "kids with moms who don't make them do homework", but it would at least be a start in the right direction.
Sure, schools should be a major factor in deciding where to buy, but the information provided on sites like greatschools and the Maryland Report Card are severely lacking. Scores tend to reflect mostly the socioeconomic status of the population of the school, and the administration and teachers' abilities to teach what is on the test. Assuming that you have reasonably bright and hardworking students, they'll be able to learn that information at any reasonably decent school. But if a school goes further and has a gifted education program, a robotics program, arts and music, enhanced science and social studies, etc., that's never going to show up on those websites.
And at what cost? When do these scores start to become self-fulfilling prophecies? When do enough parents who rely on these and care about the education of their kids stop buying at all in these districts, leaving them actually blighted, instead of just a diverse school?
I honestly worry about what it does to home values. Is our home going to sell for less because we're in a district with an elementary school rated at only five stars out of ten? I wonder how many parents are going to look further and realize that it's actually a pretty decent little school. I admit, I was apprehensive at my son starting kindergarten last fall because of the scores, but in reality, he has a great teacher, the kids at all of the levels are getting attention, and he's getting a much better than average education. And while there are a lot of kids whose parents don't seem to care, there's also a good population of "good kids". Frankly, if your kid is a "good kid", he's probably going to be friends with the other kids a lot like him.
Essentially what we need is a better way to rate schools. Or at least better demographic information. Don't just tell me how black kids compare against white kids, but tell me how the groups compare between household income level, or parental education level. There are exceptions, sure, and you can't measure "kids with moms who care" vs. "kids with moms who don't make them do homework", but it would at least be a start in the right direction.
Heh. Caught me in a rant.
This is what I was trying to get at. Test scores don't tell the whole story. They don't tell you that a kid has food on his/her mind most of the day if they are poor. They don't take into account language issues or even cultural differences. They just provide numbers. To find a good school, you have to look beyond test scores and star rating systems.
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