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Old 07-11-2011, 09:19 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 14,001,790 times
Reputation: 3222

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I received two letters in the mail last week about being a 'Person of Record' to revise certain conditions of the Zoning Map Amendment and to be provided a Conceptual Site Plan for a possible mixed use complex that is to be built near my home. For anyone with knowledge of this process, am I being invited just as a random local resident, being invited just like everyone else in the immediate vicinity of such a project, or because the project may affect where I live? I guess I'm more or less asking if anyone has gone through this already and if so, what was the reasoning for being your inclusion.
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Old 07-11-2011, 10:56 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,512 posts, read 60,734,312 times
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How close is the affected property?

What it sounds like happening is that the nearby property is either being rezoned (not likely, unless there's a comprehensive rezoning going on, since that's called spot rezonong and is generally illegal) or (and this is probably it) the owner/developer is asking for a special exception to allow whatever it is that he's proposing.

You were invited, as you thought, as an adjacent or nearby within a certain radius property owner to either object to the project due to it's likely change in area (if you do that have stats, pictures, ask if there's been a traffic study done, what kind of businesses, etc. to make your case. It' an uphill battle when it gets to this point just so you know), support it, or just to watch. Affected property owners are required by MD law to be notified and allowed to testify.

You will likely have to sign up to speak and identify yourself and address. The proceeding is a quasi-legal proceeding and testimony from it can be used in Court proceedings if there is an appeal to Circuit Court (which can happen usually if the project is denied).
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:42 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 14,001,790 times
Reputation: 3222
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
How close is the affected property?

What it sounds like happening is that the nearby property is either being rezoned (not likely, unless there's a comprehensive rezoning going on, since that's called spot rezonong and is generally illegal) or (and this is probably it) the owner/developer is asking for a special exception to allow whatever it is that he's proposing.

You were invited, as you thought, as an adjacent or nearby within a certain radius property owner to either object to the project due to it's likely change in area (if you do that have stats, pictures, ask if there's been a traffic study done, what kind of businesses, etc. to make your case. It' an uphill battle when it gets to this point just so you know), support it, or just to watch. Affected property owners are required by MD law to be notified and allowed to testify.

You will likely have to sign up to speak and identify yourself and address. The proceeding is a quasi-legal proceeding and testimony from it can be used in Court proceedings if there is an appeal to Circuit Court (which can happen usually if the project is denied).
Thank you for your response.

The property is walking distance from where I live. I live in the condominium complex in Oxon Hill off of Indian Head Highway. I'm becoming very curious because the state has already toyed with the idea of buying up our complex and expanding the road. It is a very old complex that needs a lot of work, including rebuilding a burned down building. I get leery of any project proposals because it seems like they are trying to completely redevelop a lot down here and given our location off of a major highway that is desperate to be expanded. I'm just wondering if they will propose highway expansion which is what State Senator C. Anthony Muse has been calling for. It should be interesting to see what they plan on doing.

Here goes an attachment of how close it is. The red circle represents the proposed site and the blue circle represents the beginning of the complex.
Attached Thumbnails
Question about Prince George's County Planning-map.png  
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:51 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,512 posts, read 60,734,312 times
Reputation: 61144
That's what it is then. You're an owner of the common property of the condo HOA so all the owners there should have gotten the same letter.

If the complex is as you say, somewhat in need of redoing, it might not be the worst thing for the State to do a condemnation for road expansion. You get paid the average of your appraisal and the State's appraisal in that situation. Well, it might be bad if you bought right before the real estate bubble blew up and what you owe is more than the appraisal.

In any event, what I'm guessing is that the hearing is because the developer likely wants a change in use for the subject property. Maybe it's zoned for high density residential only and he wants to put some commercial in, or the type of commercial isn't currently allowed (like a gas station).

Possibly the developer wants to increase density (more units/acre or higher buildings).


Anthony Muse talks a lot but doesn't accomplish much. The State won't build a road anywhere unless their engineers determine one is needed. Which might happen if Rosecroft ends up with slots and table games (which is on the table for the special session of the Legislature in September).

Last edited by North Beach Person; 07-11-2011 at 02:16 PM.. Reason: missed a word
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:24 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 14,001,790 times
Reputation: 3222
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
That's what it is then. You're an owner of the common property of the condo HOA so all the owners there should have gotten the same letter.

If the complex is as you say, somewhat in need of redoing, it might not be the worst thing for the State to do a condemnation for road expansion. You get paid the average of your appraisal and the State's appraisal in that situation. Well, it might be bad if you bought right before the real estate bubble blew up and what you owe is more than the appraisal.

In any event, what I'm guessing is that the hearing is because the developer likely wants a change in use for the subject property. Maybe it's zoned for high density residential only and he wants to put some commercial in, or the type of commercial isn't currently allowed (like a gas station).

Possibly the developer wants to increase density (more units/acre or higher buildings).

Anthony Muse talks a lot but doesn't accomplish much. The State won't build a road anywhere unless their engineers determine one is needed. Which might happen if Rosecroft ends up with slots and table games (which is on the table for the special session of the Legislature in September).
Well for me personally I purchased right after the bubble when the economy was seemingly starting to pick up. Unfortunately housing value has dropped even further from that, so it is still possible, depending on the appraisal that I might still owe more than what it's wroth.

I know that there are definitely some who own property in our complex who brought during the housing bubble and I don't think they would be too keen on this idea. If this is the case of the land possibly being taken, then it will certainly be an interesting debate, especially considering we have a large number of delinquencies and investors.

Oh and I agree with you about Muse. A lot of lip service, but I do wonder as you said if they really are going to consider expanding. In the past few months we have the purchase of Rosecroft, the announcement of an outlet mall at the National Harbor, a new Walmart that is in the process of being built and now this. Seems like transportation has to be a concern for more than just Muse at some point.
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Northwest Suburbs of Denver
434 posts, read 1,119,340 times
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We're facing similar issues in the north area of the county. A developer is applying to have the zoning change so they can build a mixed use development.

I've been thinking recently about the successful (and not) mixed use developments. Proximity to a metro seems to be key, IMHO.
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Old 07-14-2011, 09:09 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 14,001,790 times
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Yes they are basically proposing to put the Tanger Outlet Mall to the side of where we live at. It looks like they are trying to build it on the historic Salubria land.
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Old 07-15-2011, 05:32 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,512 posts, read 60,734,312 times
Reputation: 61144
There's the reason then. Property declared historic usually has a bunch of covenants, restrictions, etc. on its use. The developers are probably going for a Special Exception and not a Zoning change (they seem to be the same but by legal definitions they're not). The reasoning behind a Special Exception is that the applicant has to prove that the neighborhood has changed so much that the proposed use will now fit in and be appropriate. To get a Zoning change between the Comprehensive Re-Zoning times (usually every 10 years) the applicant has to prove that the property was given its Zoning designation in error. That's much harder to prove.

Remember, the burden of proof is on the developer for either of the above scenarios, something Planning and Zoning Boards sometimes forget.

Last edited by North Beach Person; 07-15-2011 at 06:11 AM.. Reason: words
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Old 07-15-2011, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Northwest Suburbs of Denver
434 posts, read 1,119,340 times
Reputation: 293
What I wonder is this - Once the developer gets approval for a zoning change, what's to legally bind them to do what they say they are going to do ?
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Old 07-15-2011, 04:18 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,512 posts, read 60,734,312 times
Reputation: 61144
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrapper105 View Post
What I wonder is this - Once the developer gets approval for a zoning change, what's to legally bind them to do what they say they are going to do ?

This is just Step 1. They'll have a very preliminary site plan to show plus some conceptual drawings. If the change, again probably a Special Exception, is approved, most likely with conditions for setbacks, parking, green space, plantings, buffers, stormwater management, etc. the company will then get it's plans together for a Preliminary Site Plan Review.

That will entail coming in with more detailed plans showing setbacks, architecturals, elevations, maybe materials and colors but that is more likely for the Final Site Plan Approval.

Now the company will come in with more detailed drawings of the above. If there's commercial involved there will have to be details about the type: restaurant, small retail, grocery (if that's included they may have to show a Letter of Intent from a grocer). There will now be details about parking, traffic flow within plus a bunch of other details. When all that is approved (and it could be a couple years from now) the company can pull building permits.

There will be periodic inspections and if there is a major material change (say from apartments to townhouses) then they'll have to go back before Planning and Zoning for another Review.

If they try to get slick and deviate in a major way they won't get a Use and Occupancy Permit, which means that legally they can't have tenants. That's the hammer that keeps in-progress changes from happening.

Even small changes have to have a notification sent, say they can't get pink Crape Myrtles and have to change to white. That's not true in all jurisdictions but PG works under MDNCPP, and they're real detail oriented.
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