Thinking of moving to PG suburbs

[EdwardA]

Originally Posted by RamblingMan

Snarky? You sound like the kind of person I want in my neighborhood.

When you have a little time, get in your car and drive to Fort Washington. Check out the waterfront streets like Riverside Drive, Potomac Drive, and Indian Queen Point Road. The houses on the water will be out of your price range, but the houses immediately across the street and a few houses up from the water on streets like Lark Lane, Greenway Trail, and Merton Trail might not be. Compare and contrast with similar houses immediately across the river on or near Southdown Road and Park Terrace Drive. You'll find similar neighborhoods further south in Fort Washington that are worth checking out as well.

The schools aren't the greatest, but that shouldn't be a problem if you are willing to pay for private school. The commute to Temple Hill and DC will be easy by DC area standards. Pull up a crime map like spotcrime.com and you'll see that crime in the area, especially on the streets I mentioned, is very limited.

Even with all of PG County's many and manifest problems, I'd rather live in my neighborhood than almost anyplace in NoVa. As far as I'm concerned, the only real problem is that houses on the streets I mentioned very rarely come up for sale.

Why are the homes on the Ft. Washington side so much cheaper than the Alexandria and Fairfax side of the Potomac?

[RamblingMan]

Originally Posted by meatkins

Would you move to Capitol Heights?

No, but only because I'm not aware of anything there to attract me. There are plenty of neighborhoods where I'd choose higher crime and worse schools because of other things they offer. For example, I wouldn't hesitate to choose 6th Street in SE DC, Adams Morgan, 14th and U, or the Southwest waterfront over Fairfax, Reston or McLean.

I'm not irrationally prejudiced against NoVa. I like Old Town Alexandria a lot. I also considered Ballston and Clarendon. I'm sure NoVa works best for a lot of people. I just don't buy into the assertion of some people that choosing somewhere else means you don't care about safety or education.

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by EdwardA

At the end of the day whether you have kids or not the price that you pay and any future appreciation will be dependent on the quality of the public school system. Very few places in this country defy that logic (mainly densely populated popular cities ie NYC, DC and San Fran).

So while Fairfax is "overrated" Alexandra is correct in Fairfax at worst your home price may soften a bit but it will most likely never have the preciptious drop in home values that PG and to a degree PWC experienced.

And that is the reason why you should at least be somewhat concerned about crime in your area. If crime is a real issue in that area, your property value will go down. Who would want to spend money on a place that will ultimately cost them more money? I don't expect people to try to live in an oasis, but buying a home in a high crime area is risky business and very dubious financial decision. Years from now, there could come a situation where you may need to move. Anything could happen and if you are $50-$100k underwater, is really going to make sense? And of course some would say that this is directly related to the quality of schools.

Let me put it like this, why are you buying a home? If you don't care about property value going up, why not just rent? I would assume the major reason for people buying as opposed to renting, is to get home appreciation.

[RamblingMan]

Originally Posted by EdwardA

Why are the homes on the Ft. Washington side so much cheaper than the Alexandria and Fairfax side of the Potomac?

That's a good question, and I essentially asked the same thing when I said "compare and contrast" with similar homes across the Potomac. In terms of actual Potomac waterfront homes (as opposed to canalfront or creekfront), houses on the Virginia side sell at a very substantial premium compared to houses on the Maryland side. It can be a little hard to compare waterfront because each plot is different, but I would venture a guess that premiums are in the neighborhood of about 400%. A 2/3 acre plot on the Virginia side might be worth about $2 million while a similar plot on the Maryland side might go for about $500,000. This doesn't count improvements, which would cost about the same on either side.

I believe the houses on the Virginia side are zoned for West Potomac High School. Is sending my kids there worth a 1.5 million dollar premium? Is it worth the additional $20,000 a year in property tax? That property tax alone would pay for a lot of private school. Crime is lower in the Virginia neighborhoods, but but crime in the actual waterfront neighborhoods is pretty low in both and violent crime even lower. For some reason, Virginia appears to have more sex offenders. I'm told Maryland's overall tax burden is higher, although property tax is higher on the Virginia side and this will add an extra bite to the higher home values. The Virginia side is closer to high end shopping and restaurants. I pretty much have to drive to Virginia or DC when I want those things. Commute to DC is about the same. The Virginia houses have a view of Maryland, Fort Washington and Fort Foote Parks, and the sunrise. I have a view of Old Town, Dyke Marsh Preserve, and the sunset. Riparian rights are better on the Maryland side, largely because Maryland owns the Potomac. Plots on the Maryland side tend to be larger than on the Virginia side.

Why are the homes on the Maryland side so much cheaper? Beats me. I think the Virginia side should be worth a premium, but I can't justify it being a million dollars or more for a smaller plot. I think the Virginia side, particularly Southdown, offers greater cachet than Fort Washington, and Fort Washington is definitely weighed down by PG County's poor reputation. I have no idea what will happen to property values in the future, but there's a very limited amount of Potomac Frontage within easy commuting distance of DC. I think Fort Washington is a great value and possibly the metro area's best kept secret. YMMV.

[bowian]

Originally Posted by EdwardA

The reality is that is what people do and if enough people do it and not enough people want to buy their houses. Your home price goes down, maybe you end up underwater and now you sir have a millstone around your neck. New job offer requires relocation, tough luck. Nearing retirement want to head South? Better come to the closing table with some cash.

Sorry some of you guys are a little too flippant about crime in PG for my tastes.

No, I am not flippant about crime anywhere. But I do think that you can get a little flip when people don't agree with your sentiments. I can see the good and bad in PG realistically. But I don't see where people here, who have chosen, or want to choose, PG as home are doing so with eyes closed.

[EdwardA]

Originally Posted by bowian

No, I am not flippant about crime anywhere. But I do think that you can get a little flip when people don't agree with your sentiments. I can see the good and bad in PG realistically. But I don't see where people here, who have chosen, or want to choose, PG as home are doing so with eyes closed.

I'm okay with people disagreeing with me but it comes off as folks are minimizing the impact of crime and poor schools because these issues don't affect them personally or are somehow defensive because the county is majority Black.

[bowian]

Originally Posted by EdwardA

I'm okay with people disagreeing with me but it comes off as folks are minimizing the impact of crime and poor schools because these issues don't affect them personally or are somehow defensive because the county is majority Black.

I think this comment makes my point. Previous comments, to me, are minimizing the impact of crime from their perspective, not generally. They are not saying that crime is not a problem in PG, but they feel safe because they have bascially been safe. A colleague of mine from long ago felt comfortable riding the NY subway late at night by herself. I didn't feel that was safe. She did, and she chafed at the many people who warned her against it. She never had a problem on the subway. That doesn't mean that late-night subway rides aren't unsafe or that crime shouldn't be addressed. But she did her own risk assessment and made a decision in terms of what she was willing to handle.

In terms of being defensive, I don't get that one. Some of the PG residents commenting here are not black. I have found that when people speak of certain other areas being "sketchy" (parts of DC, Springfield, Seven Corners, Hybla Valley in Alexandra, Wheaton, Silver Spring, etc.), residents of those areas are quick to defend where they live. I don't see anyone calling them defensive.

Social ills and mentality are important factors regarding crime in PG. I don't dismiss those factors, but I wonder if that discussion needs to be separate from this topic. Is the OP seeking practical information about a move to PG (which entails crime and other research), or is the OP seeking social (or ideological) commentary about how blacks need to clean up their acts crime-wise?

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by EdwardA

I'm okay with people disagreeing with me but it comes off as folks are minimizing the impact of crime and poor schools because these issues don't affect them personally or are somehow defensive because the county is majority Black.

Unfortunately let's be honest, that exactly what it is.

If you say there is a lot of crime in a certain area,
Crime happens everywhere.
That was just a bad time period.
Well I haven't seen anything.
Well, I feel safe when I go out.

If you say there are poor schools,
Good kids can come from bad schools.
They are getting better.
People don't care about test scores. They are overrated.
People will still move here because of the National Harbor.
Well we have good private schools.

Unfortunately I find this mentality a lot in the county. This is the definition of complacency. Let's be honest, as black people we are generally very thin skinned. It seems as though almost all criticism against us is considered to be racism, whether it's President Obama, PG County Schools, the county in general or whatever. There is nothing wrong with being critical. Sometimes we need to be critical in order to do better. I think we would rather think positive than to look at the facts. Sometimes the criticism is taken as though you don't care, but what's wrong with being critical. People in other areas do it all the time. Have you seen the way Fairfax County parents react to the school system? They are highly critical of them. They don't accept the status quo. We shouldn't either.

[adelphi_sky]

New thread here so we don't hijack the OP's thread.

//www.city-data.com/forum/washi...s-we-make.html