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Sorry, jumping into the conversation....but what is the Whole Foods project...and how is it being perceived as negative?
THe Whole Foods or Cafritz project concerns a tract of land on the east side of RT. 1 just past 410 going north on RT.1 One side opposes the development because they feel it is:
1. Too big
2. Not zoned for mixed-use but for single family residential.
3. Will cause too much traffic
4. Will kill or displace a natural habitat
5. Will prevent them from entering and exiting their neighborhood with reasonable ease.
6. Not smart growth because it is not on top of a metro station. (too far from the College Park or PG Plaza Metro to be considered smart growth or TOD)
THe other side sees it as:
1. Smart Growth (urban area and not that far College Park Metro and PG PLaza)
2. Jobs
3. Amenities such as a gym, shops, restaurants, a hotel, office space.
4. Whole Foods (some residents have been waiting for a quality full-service grocer)
5. Businesses like it because it would attract more permanent residents to the College Park area which is practically dead in the summer.
6. Tax revenues
Thanks! Seems like a worthy development to me. I don't see how they can build a large Whole Foods next to the subway. My feeling is that near the subway should be a bunch of smaller little stores that are walkable everywhere without requiring many parking spaces devoted to the store.
This seems like it would be a bigger blessing right where they are intending to put it. Okay, I can see now why some think PG is a little backwards, to be anti-Whole Foods.
Thanks! Seems like a worthy development to me. I don't see how they can build a large Whole Foods next to the subway. My feeling is that near the subway should be a bunch of smaller little stores that are walkable everywhere without requiring many parking spaces devoted to the store.
This seems like it would be a bigger blessing right where they are intending to put it. Okay, I can see now why some think PG is a little backwards, to be anti-Whole Foods.
But what if you lived in that neighborhood where it's being built and traffic is expected to increase? Having a whole foods near a metro station isn't really that out of the realm of possibility.
Examples:
Foggy Bottom in DC
Courthouse in Arlington
King Street Metro in Alexandria
Silver Spring
Near White Flint
Chevy Chase
Would it really seem that far fetched? I mean those are some very nice areas, wouldn't you all agree?
But what if you lived in that neighborhood where it's being built and traffic is expected to increase?
For me if increased traffic means more amenities closer to home I am for the development. As long as this area continues to maintain a stable job market there is going to be more and more traffic so that is not going to stop. That said, instead of fighting development wholesale, really focus on working with the developers and (more importantly) county/state officials to make infrastructure changes a priority. A good example has been PG Council's response to adding a casino. If you recall one of their demands was for the developer to improve infrastructure in the immediate area before any other construction could begin. They also demanded that money be allocated for continued improvements (I believe it was 5 years for the immediate impacted area and for the rest of the county after that point). One of the things that I have observed about the residents is that historically we complain to our own detriment and lack the ability to negotiate as residents of other counties have done to achieve their endgame.
Having a whole foods near a metro station isn't really that out of the realm of possibility.
Examples:
Foggy Bottom in DC
Courthouse in Arlington
King Street Metro in Alexandria
Silver Spring
Near White Flint
Chevy Chase
Would it really seem that far fetched? I mean those are some very nice areas, wouldn't you all agree?
It's not far fetched at all. My guess is the availability of land that is available for development/redevelopment that they would have access to and of course is in/near their core market.
Other facts of the approved Cafritz development are:
The 37 acre parcel was zoned residential, for single family homes. Under that zoning, the land would have accommodated about 150-170 homes, depending. The Cafritzes will be permitted to build 995 residential dwelling units (apartments and townhouses).
Traffic on Route 1 will increase by 17,000 daily car trips per day.
There is not a guarantee that Whole Foods will remain in the space long term. They have supposedly signed a lease with the developers, but the developers are allowed to substitute a "high end grocer" for up to five years and after that they can put anything in that space.
In this supposed community of 895 apartments and 100 townhouses, there is not a single park, playing field, community center, school or church. There are a few very small grassy areas in between sidewalks and parking lots.
It will be approximately .9 of a mile walk from the entrance of the College Park metro station to the Whole Foods. Would you walk .9 of a mile with your groceries ?
What 99% of the people out there fail to realize is that this land has always been zoned residential for a reason. It is in the middle of other residential neighborhoods. There is ample VACANT commercial space within 1-2 miles of this site if Whole Foods wanted to locate there. Many of the opponents of the project would welcome it with open arms if it were to be built in an existing, commercially zoned location.
What the Prince George's County Council has set a precedent for is that if there is vacant residential zoned land, it can be re-zoned for commercial enterprises AT ANY TIME AND FOR ANY REASON. That's pretty darn scary to me, and it should be to the rest of Prince George's County as well.
Other facts of the approved Cafritz development are:
The 37 acre parcel was zoned residential, for single family homes. Under that zoning, the land would have accommodated about 150-170 homes, depending. The Cafritzes will be permitted to build 995 residential dwelling units (apartments and townhouses).
Apartments and townhomes allow for more retail, offices and amenities. It's the whole build up not out thing going on inside the beltway. New single family homes are now more common in the outter suburbs because land has become a premium inside the beltway and near metro stations.
Quote:
Traffic on Route 1 will increase by 17,000 daily car trips per day.
This study should also include not only the traffic from Cafritz but also the Arts District and East Campus. The area as a whole is growing. More traffic is inevitable. Yes Cafritz will add to that traffic, but those who live there will be within walking distance to downtown College Park and the Arts District. Too bad Rt. 1 looks the way it does now. They won't have much to walk to. But it will be good for the businesses already there. The retail at Cafritz will mitigate the sparse amenities along RT.1 for its residents.
Quote:
There is not a guarantee that Whole Foods will remain in the space long term. They have supposedly signed a lease with the developers, but the developers are allowed to substitute a "high end grocer" for up to five years and after that they can put anything in that space.
This is true. Nothing is guaranteed. But for now, they are part of the plan.
Quote:
In this supposed community of 895 apartments and 100 townhouses, there is not a single park, playing field, community center, school or church. There are a few very small grassy areas in between sidewalks and parking lots.
Hmmm. Looking at a map I see PG Plaza Community Center, a 0.7 mile 14 minute walk, and the Riverdale Recreation Center behind Caftritz that is within walking distance (especially if the bridge over the railroad tracks is included). Then there is also Calvert Park. There are tons of parks, green spaces, and recreation centers already in the area that are available.
Quote:
It will be approximately .9 of a mile walk from the entrance of the College Park metro station to the Whole Foods. Would you walk .9 of a mile with your groceries ?
Ummm. Even if I lived down the block I wouldn't carry groceries. It's physically impossible no matter how far you travel unless you have a grocery cart. So, I'm not sure I understand this argument. The proximity of the metro station is for those people that work or don't mind walking to the metro to get to other places. I walked more than that to get from Tenleytown station to work. .9 miles is about a 20-25 minute walk. For some people that is worth more than having to pay $100 for parking at the metro or even more in DC. My wife worked in downtown D.C. last year and took the metro. With parking included her monthly commuting budget was almost $250. We are a tad too far away from the PG Metro. If she could walk for 20 minutes to a metro station and save over $100/month, she would.
Quote:
What 99% of the people out there fail to realize is that this land has always been zoned residential for a reason. It is in the middle of other residential neighborhoods.
And what 1% of the people fail to realize is that this is not a saw mill or some office complex. IT will also be residential with offices and retail. Essentially a town center. It won't be the type of housing that will be in the adjacent neighborhoods. But neither is most of the developments being built on RT. 1. That's a strawman's argument. If developers could only build housing like the surrounding neighborhoods there would be no apartments or townhomes along Rt. 1 because the housing stock behind it are all single family from Brentwood up to the Beltway.
Quote:
There is ample VACANT commercial space within 1-2 miles of this site if Whole Foods wanted to locate there. Many of the opponents of the project would welcome it with open arms if it were to be built in an existing, commercially zoned location.
Too bad the developers don't own those other properties. In this capitalist, every man has a right to make a living society, are you saying Cafritz has to sit on a wooded lot until all the other properties have been snatched up? OR are they allowed to take an opportunity like everyone else? Is Riverdale or College Park going to pony up the money to buy the land at asking price in order to build single family homes on it? Not likely. The world doesn't work that way. Cafritz found an opportunity. They brought it to the local governments. They asked for the zoning change. All was approved by elected officials by the people. I know some people distrust government and have their conspiracy theories about backhanded dealing and coercion, etc. This may or may not be true. But some people really like the idea of this development.
Quote:
What the Prince George's County Council has set a precedent for is that if there is vacant residential zoned land, it can be re-zoned for commercial enterprises AT ANY TIME AND FOR ANY REASON. That's pretty darn scary to me, and it should be to the rest of Prince George's County as well.
HOw are "895 apartments and 100 townhouses" somehow not residential? A grocery store, a much needed on by the way, shops, offices, and other amenities scares you? Wow. Those in the immediate neighborhood must enjoy hopping into their cars and traveling to Montgomery County for everything.
When I walk along Wisconsin Ave or Connecticut Ave. in Bethesda and Chevy Chase I see a very happy mix of single family neighborhoods with apartments and commercial development. People can actually walk to a cafe and get coffee or grab a nice dinner at a sit down restaurant and not have to hop in their cars and drive 6 miles for that. And again, these are places that people enjoy. What baffles me is how people somehow think that is scary or negative in many ways.
A )This is true. Nothing is guaranteed. But for now, they are part of the plan.
B) Hmmm. Looking at a map I see PG Plaza Community Center, a 0.7 mile 14 minute walk, and the Riverdale Recreation Center behind Caftritz that is within walking distance (especially if the bridge over the railroad tracks is included). Then there is also Calvert Park. There are tons of parks, green spaces, and recreation centers already in the area that are available.
C) And what 1% of the people fail to realize is that this is not a saw mill or some office complex. IT will also be residential with offices and retail. Essentially a town center. It won't be the type of housing that will be in the adjacent neighborhoods. But neither is most of the developments being built on RT. 1. That's a strawman's argument. If developers could only build housing like the surrounding neighborhoods there would be no apartments or townhomes along Rt. 1 because the housing stock behind it are all single family from Brentwood up to the Beltway.
Too bad the developers don't own those other properties. In this capitalist, every man has a right to make a living society, are you saying Cafritz has to sit on a wooded lot until all the other properties have been snatched up? OR are they allowed to take an opportunity like everyone else? Is Riverdale or College Park going to pony up the money to buy the land at asking price in order to build single family homes on it? Not likely. The world doesn't work that way. Cafritz found an opportunity. They brought it to the local governments. They asked for the zoning change. All was approved by elected officials by the people. I know some people distrust government and have their conspiracy theories about backhanded dealing and coercion, etc. This may or may not be true. But some people really like the idea of this development.
.
I picked out the parts I wanted to address. I really have no dog in the fight but I do have insight.
A) That's the developer "bait and switch". Happened down here, a Trader Joe's or Whole Foods was
promised, everyone got orgasmic. The grocery that ended going in was Food Lion. Now the developer can't figure out why he'd not getting much cooperation for his new "visions".
B) If what you say is true about the lack of greenspace the whole plan is DOA when it goes to MD Depatment of Planning for comment (PlanMD, remember?). Incorporated greenspace and on site storm water management is absolutely required at the State level now. The greenspace lack will kick the plan right back. A lack of community amenities on site (rec center, parks, etc. Not a school.) goes against everything the State is trying to accomplish with all the new regulations coming down, from PlanMD, to WIP, to transit. The plan as you described sounds like the designers got stuck in 1980.
C) Cafritz bought (or more likely placed an option to buy) on the property knowing what the zoning was. Again this is classic developer behavior: buy a property and then claim the zoning is wrong and has to be changed to be "fair" to them. Was this change in the long-term plans for the area or did it only come once Cafritz got into the mix?
I would build a limited number of Victorian and atomic style Vintage homes. Very classy, and expensive to show the public how things were years ago. Not allowing 4 cars parked in front. What's wrong with keeping the trees and putting in a small Whole foods withoud bunging up the neighborhood along US 1 ? Why does every business have to be big, and "in your face?" There were small mom and pop restaurants that stayed in business for decades. The problem is with "yuppification". The area needs something classy, and unique. I lived on the Cafritz property in the early 50's. I would hate to see it go ugly.
Hmmm missed this one. Wondering if Whole Foods will pursue other locations in the county or not..........
Quote:
The Prince George’s County planning board staff recommended late last week that the board reject the plan because of what it said were deficiencies in the proposal, including problems with bike path design and a bridge across a CSX railroad track.
Issues, issues, issues. I still think it will go forward. The developer has come this far wining many hurdles. The board didn't say no, they said try again. It's frustrating, but I don't think it's a deal breaker. Spending millions in legal battles would be though.
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