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Old 08-17-2012, 09:50 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 14,025,592 times
Reputation: 3222

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khemistry View Post
It's posts like this, why I usually take things you say with a grain of salt. Your thoughts/opinions are usually a classic example of a "hit or miss." Sometimes, you seem to be so on point with what you know about a particular issue or topic ... and other times, you are as far from the truth as right is from wrong or day is from night.

I'd stronly advise you to make sure you are thoroughly educated and knowledgeable on topics that you choose to speak so passionately about, especially when it deals with oppression of others and violating equal civil rights/liberties for all.

As posted in the link I'm providing to my rebuttal, Dan Cathy—Chick-fil-A president—didn't simply state that he was for the traditional meaning of marriage. Do you really think that THIS many people would be this damned upset over an opinion like that? I don't happen to agree with that feeling or opinion, but I can respect it. Dan Cathay went MUCH further than that in his remarks about his feelings towards gay marriage, and what you are posting as FACT, is more like fiction. Dan Cathy didn't mearly state that he simply believed in traditional marriage. He went on to state that if you support gay marriage, you "are inviting God's judgment on our nation" and that we "shake our fist at Him." He also went on to state another tidbit, which is so much more damning and the reason why people who are against his views, have a right to their opinion. Cathy stated that same-sex marriage is the result of a "DEPRIVED" mind, and then he called gay marriage "twisted up kind of stuff." So where are we know? It will be interesting to see how you defend this or find a way out of the web you've gotten yourself trapped in.

Also, Chick-fil-A has donated AT LEAST $5 million to orgniations that, among other things, depict gay people as "pedophiles," who want to make "gay behavior" ILLEGAL, and even go on to say gay people should be "exported" out of America. Some of these organizations have been identified as certified hate groups by the ACLU. Chick-fil-A also supports organizations that have claimed they can convert gay people into heterosexuals, such as "Pray Away the Gay," this despite the FACT that virtually every major medical organization has openly stated that such a thing is not only impossible, but dangerous and harmful.

Going beyond these serious issues, people and the media keep stating that Chick-fil-A has never discriminated, yet they have been sued over A DOZEN TIMES for employment discrimination. This is something that world renowned Forbes business publication, stated in 2007. Forbes went on to refer to Chick-fil-A as a "cult," and they reported that their CEO (Truett Cathy) said he only wanted to hire married people because they are more industrious and productive.

I implore you to make sure you are truly knowledgeable about issues that are this controversial, and effect/hurt human beings.

Chick-fil-A: 5 Reasons It Isn't What You Think
I think you are the one that needs to do a bit more research on what you are stating, because you are giving information that is misleading. For starters the interview that I posted was the initial comment that started the whole controversy. In other words, there wouldn't have even been another statement made about homosexuality if there wasn't an issue with the initial comment, which again never directly mentioned homosexuals. The whole purpose after that comment was to drum up controversy and make it seem as though he was addressing homosexuals. Because of the controversy that was created he was directly asked about homosexuals and of course he finally did make a statement about homosexuals. The issue is though, the media was make it seem as though his initial comments were against homosexuals, they were not.

And to put the quote that you posted up in full context here it is:

Chick-fil-A President Says 'God's Judgment' Coming Because of Same-Sex Marriage

Quote:
Dan Cathy, the president and chief operating officer of Chick-fil-A, was invited to appear on the "The Ken Coleman Show," during when he revealed that those advocating for same-sex marriage will in turn bring "God's judgment" upon us.


"I think we are inviting God's judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say, 'We know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage,'" Cathy said. "I pray God's mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to define what marriage is about."
At this point he's expressing his opinion about the definition marriage. He never stated anything derogatory about gays. How can you or anyone else sit here and say that his comments were anti-gay when he only addressed what he believe is the definition of marriage? He didn't say anything derogatory about gays or even civil unions, so how can it be deemed anti-gay? Is he against gay marriage? Sure, but doesn't that mean he hates gays? How do we draw that conclusion?

When he said "deprived" and "twisted up kind of stuff", he wasn't even addressing gays. He was talking about our politicians who are trying to force gay marriage into law. To suggest that he was talking about gays is completely misleading. Proof:

SheWired - Chick-Fil-A President Dan Cathy Says Depraved Minds Like Marriage Equality

Who is ACLU that their opinion really should matter? Are they the end all be all for truth or they concerned about involving themselves with political affairs and have been known advocate of homosexuals?

Here is the actual facts directly from the source.

Groups they support:
WinShape Foundation (which was started by them)
There only function in marriage deal with counseling married couples. The only controversy they have had is that they wouldn't allow gay people attend their conference, but then again, would a Muslim let a Christian and his bible come to their mosque to read it?

Family Research Council
Marriage, Family & Sexuality

Quote:
As our Mission Statement declares, "Family Research Council champions marriage and family as the foundation of civilization, the seedbed of virtue, and the wellspring of society." Properly understood, "families" are formed only by ties of blood, marriage, or adoption, and "marriage" is a union of one man and one woman.
Homosexual
Quote:
Family Research Council believes that homosexual conduct is harmful to the persons who engage in it and to society at large, and can never be affirmed. It is by definition unnatural, and as such is associated with negative physical and psychological health effects. While the origins of same-sex attractions may be complex, there is no convincing evidence that a homosexual identity is ever something genetic or inborn. We oppose the vigorous efforts of homosexual activists to demand that homosexuality be accepted as equivalent to heterosexuality in law, in the media, and in schools. Attempts to join two men or two women in "marriage" constitute a radical redefinition and falsification of the institution, and FRC supports state and federal constitutional amendments to prevent such redefinition by courts or legislatures. Sympathy must be extended to those who struggle with unwanted same-sex attractions, and every effort should be made to assist such persons to overcome those attractions, as many already have.
This bolded part is important because this is the foundation of their beliefs. They do not believe homosexuality is a result of genetics and they believe it can be changed, so from that standpoint their views on what homosexuality is will greatly differ from those that are homosexual. This view point of what the origin of sexual orientation is further supported by APA in a way that there isn't anything conclusive to draw from the belief that homosexuality is natural birth right.

Did you find out how many of those lawsuits were actually successful? If he truly only hired people who were married, the government would have shut him down. They have OSHA laws for a reason, you know? Please do more research on your own.


By the way if Huffington Post is your source, you have no credibility. Especially when you try to act like it something that you actually knew prior to this thread, instead of giving credit to the people you just basically plagiarized.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-...b_1725237.html
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:53 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 14,025,592 times
Reputation: 3222
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhenomenalAJ View Post
Right wingers are always boycotting crap, look at the Davinci Code, Michael Moore movies, Target or Kmart or any business they perceive as pro gay. Hate how right wingers like to denigrate liberals for exercising their right to spend money how they want but exercise it 10x as much as anyone else Why shouldn't students be able to protest and have a say what goes on on their campus? Righties only like free speech when its their voices unfortunately.
Because money talks. And the money is saying the students like Chick Fil-A otherwise they wouldn't be in business there.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Salisbury, MD
575 posts, read 556,583 times
Reputation: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtitans View Post
I think you are the one that needs to do a bit more research on what you are stating, because you are giving information that is misleading. For starters the interview that I posted was the initial comment that started the whole controversy. In other words, there wouldn't have even been another statement made about homosexuality if there wasn't an issue with the initial comment, which again never directly mentioned homosexuals. The whole purpose after that comment was to drum up controversy and make it seem as though he was addressing homosexuals. Because of the controversy that was created he was directly asked about homosexuals and of course he finally did make a statement about homosexuals. The issue is though, the media was make it seem as though his initial comments were against homosexuals, they were not.

And to put the quote that you posted up in full context here it is:

Chick-fil-A President Says 'God's Judgment' Coming Because of Same-Sex Marriage

At this point he's expressing his opinion about the definition marriage. He never stated anything derogatory about gays. How can you or anyone else sit here and say that his comments were anti-gay when he only addressed what he believe is the definition of marriage? He didn't say anything derogatory about gays or even civil unions, so how can it be deemed anti-gay? Is he against gay marriage? Sure, but doesn't that mean he hates gays? How do we draw that conclusion?

When he said "deprived" and "twisted up kind of stuff", he wasn't even addressing gays. He was talking about our politicians who are trying to force gay marriage into law. To suggest that he was talking about gays is completely misleading. Proof:

SheWired - Chick-Fil-A President Dan Cathy Says Depraved Minds Like Marriage Equality

Who is ACLU that their opinion really should matter? Are they the end all be all for truth or they concerned about involving themselves with political affairs and have been known advocate of homosexuals?

Here is the actual facts directly from the source.

Groups they support:
WinShape Foundation (which was started by them)
There only function in marriage deal with counseling married couples. The only controversy they have had is that they wouldn't allow gay people attend their conference, but then again, would a Muslim let a Christian and his bible come to their mosque to read it?

Family Research Council
Marriage, Family & Sexuality


Homosexual


This bolded part is important because this is the foundation of their beliefs. They do not believe homosexuality is a result of genetics and they believe it can be changed, so from that standpoint their views on what homosexuality is will greatly differ from those that are homosexual. This view point of what the origin of sexual orientation is further proved by APA

Did you find out how many of those lawsuits were actually successful? If he truly only hired people who were married, the government would have shut him down. They have OSHA laws for a reason, you know? Please do more research on your own.


By the way if Huffington Post is your source, you have no credibility. Especially when you try to act like it something that you actually knew prior to this thread, instead of giving credit to the people you just basically plagiarized.

The EEOC and/or Dept. of Justice would shut the business down in cases of discrimination. Please do more research on your own.

Last edited by InvaderBryce; 08-17-2012 at 09:59 PM.. Reason: ...
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Salisbury, MD
575 posts, read 556,583 times
Reputation: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhenomenalAJ View Post
Right wingers are always boycotting crap, look at the Davinci Code, Michael Moore movies, Target or Kmart or any business they perceive as pro gay. Hate how right wingers like to denigrate liberals for exercising their right to spend money how they want but exercise it 10x as much as anyone else Why shouldn't students be able to protest and have a say what goes on on their campus? Righties only like free speech when its their voices unfortunately.
Left wingers go around claiming Socialism will save this country and that Mittens favors the rich (this might be true), hates the middle class and is completely out of touch. Lefties only like free speech when it's their voices unfortunately.

My point is this: If you are going to blame one, then you better blame the other.

Last edited by InvaderBryce; 08-17-2012 at 10:07 PM.. Reason: ...
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:09 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 14,025,592 times
Reputation: 3222
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
First of all, he donates money to anti-gay groups. Like people who exist just to work against gay rights. So that's pretty 'against gays.'

Second of all, christian oppression is written into TONS of laws - you just don't realize it because you're used to it.

I mean, why the hell can't I buy liquor on Sunday...?

As for your 'anti-christian,' no, not patronizing him has nothing to do with christianity, as there are MANY christians who aren't hate-filled aholes.
What is your definition of anti-gay? Is that what you define or what the media has given you as the definition. If you believe that anti-gay is the fact that he doesn't support their lifestyle, then yes I guess it's accurate, but what is being purported is that he is against everything that they do. Let me ask you, do gays work there? Do gays still get served there? So how can he be considered anti-gay? May be a better terminology is that he disagrees with the lifestyle of gays.

This country was found on Christian's principles. What do you think the Pilgrims did here? What do you think "In God We Trust" really means? How did we know that polygamy was wrong? Stealing? What are the foundations of right and wrong in this nation? If you think it's Christian oppression, then why don't you go to an African nation like Kenya and tell them you are gay and see if you make it back.

But he's a Christian, so by not supporting him, it's like not supporting Christians right? I mean how do you make the leap that supporting traditional marriage is anti-gay? That's just hypocritical because his original statement never was directed at gays. But a protest of his business is an obvious knock on disagreeing with it's CHRISTIAN principles.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:12 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 14,025,592 times
Reputation: 3222
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvaderBryce View Post
The EEOC and/or Dept. of Justice would shut the business down in cases of discrimination. Please do more research on your own.
You are right, I posted the wrong organization but it doesn't change my point.
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Old 08-18-2012, 04:37 AM
 
Location: Alaska
3,146 posts, read 4,129,381 times
Reputation: 5471
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtitans View Post
What is your definition of anti-gay? Is that what you define or what the media has given you as the definition. If you believe that anti-gay is the fact that he doesn't support their lifestyle, then yes I guess it's accurate, but what is being purported is that he is against everything that they do. Let me ask you, do gays work there? Do gays still get served there? So how can he be considered anti-gay? May be a better terminology is that he disagrees with the lifestyle of gays.

This country was found on Christian's principles. What do you think the Pilgrims did here? What do you think "In God We Trust" really means? How did we know that polygamy was wrong? Stealing? What are the foundations of right and wrong in this nation? If you think it's Christian oppression, then why don't you go to an African nation like Kenya and tell them you are gay and see if you make it back.

But he's a Christian, so by not supporting him, it's like not supporting Christians right? I mean how do you make the leap that supporting traditional marriage is anti-gay? That's just hypocritical because his original statement never was directed at gays. But a protest of his business is an obvious knock on disagreeing with it's CHRISTIAN principles.
According to the CIA World Factbook, Kenya is 78% Christian (Protestant 45%, Roman Catholic 33%)



https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ke.html

So exactly, what point were you trying to make in the above boldfaced sentence?

That Christians are oppressive? Africans are oppressive? African Christians are oppressive?

I believe that what pro-gay marriage supporters are protesting are not Cathy's Christian beliefs but his perceived discriminating and bigoted beliefs as well as his condescending and contemptuous attitude towards homosexuals.
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Old 08-18-2012, 07:08 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 14,025,592 times
Reputation: 3222
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlinak View Post
According to the CIA World Factbook, Kenya is 78% Christian (Protestant 45%, Roman Catholic 33%)



https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ke.html

So exactly, what point were you trying to make in the above boldfaced sentence?

That Christians are oppressive? Africans are oppressive? African Christians are oppressive?

I believe that what pro-gay marriage supporters are protesting are not Cathy's Christian beliefs but his perceived discriminating and bigoted beliefs as well as his condescending and contemptuous attitude towards homosexuals.
My point has more to do with culture, religion aside since you brought up the point about the US having "Christian oppressive laws". In other countries they see things far worse. Saudi arabia is another one. We are blessed to be in this nation and for us to have an opportunity to express ourselves, but if you think those laws are really that oppressive here, I challenge you to go to another country and to do what they are trying to do. That's my point. We have freedoms that we would never have here. I'm sure you may not like every law, none of us will, but to say that we have anything oppressive is just a complete lack of perspective.

Check this out from Kenya:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Kenya

Quote:
The Kenyan Penal Code of 1930, as revised in 2006, provides as follows:[18]
  • Section 162. Unnatural offenses.
Any person who -
(a) has carnal knowledge of any person against the order of nature; or
* * *
(c) permits a male person to have carnal knowledge of him or her against the order of nature,
is guilty of a felony and is liable to imprisonment for fourteen years:
Provided that, in the case of an offence under paragraph (a), the offender shall be liable to imprisonment for twenty-one years if -
(i) the offence was committed without the consent of the person who was carnally known; or
(ii) the offence was committed with that person’s consent but the consent was obtained by force or by means of threats or intimidation of some kind, or by fear of bodily harm, or by means of false representations as to the nature of the act.
14 years of prison just knowing you are gay and you think this nation is oppressive?

Again, you completely ignored my question to you, how can you say all that when gays work there or the fact that gays still eat there? The man is expressing his opinion on a subject. He never said that he hates these individuals. You are giving what he has done so many misnomers. If I told you that I disagree with smoking and think smokers should smoke outside, am I being bigoted? It's his opinion that is being formed on something that you may not agree with, that homosexuality is not genetic. What I can't stand about situations like this is people get all upset about what is being said but instead of really interpreting what he is saying, you make assumptions and give him labels. He more or less looks at being gay like someone that has sin, not some type of genetic predisposition. If you can't take the time to understand (not necessarily agree) with what he is saying then you will continue to mislabel his points. Again I don't know any businesses that would allow a group of people work with them or be served, if he truly hated them that much. Where are the successful discrimination suits if he is so prejudice?

Last edited by justtitans; 08-18-2012 at 07:18 AM..
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Old 08-18-2012, 07:21 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 14,025,592 times
Reputation: 3222
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvaderBryce View Post
The EEOC and/or Dept. of Justice would shut the business down in cases of discrimination. Please do more research on your own.
And find it funny that I wrote all that stuff and that's the only thing you could even say about it...
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Montgomery County, MD
3,236 posts, read 3,950,060 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvaderBryce View Post
Left wingers go around claiming Socialism will save this country and that Mittens favors the rich (this might be true), hates the middle class and is completely out of touch. Lefties only like free speech when it's their voices unfortunately.

My point is this: If you are going to blame one, then you better blame the other.
Good job weaving a phony argument out of whole cloth, its not the left you saw forcing FCC fines on people they didn't like like Howard Stern. You never see any liberal trying to shut down ANY free speech in America, they'll argue against it but not demand the law come down on it. I'll never understand how right wingers live in their little world where they are supposedly constantly attacked by the left, I guess Rush telling them so makes it so
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