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I have to be honest, I have no idea what you're arguing with me here. I'm just saying that there are a lot of good deals in PG, particularly for young people, and it's ok if the recovery is slower here than in other areas. Any recovery is good. I'm not trying to pull a molukai here, so to speak.
I will stand by my long-held sentiment that Fairfax county is wildly over-rated (you can check my posts from when I first joined this forum!). If you work there, fine. But if you don't, it's wild. The schools where we were looking, in Alexandria, were NOT that good, and were in fact comparable to schools in the area of PG where we are buying. The traffic was a NIGHTMARE. It's a nightmare during rush hour, it was a nightmare on Saturday, it's a nightmare on Sunday. The strip malls everywhere just don't do it for me either. The housing stock is simply not that nice, it's mostly shoebox ramblers from the 50's and 60's, cramped townhouses, and newer, incredibly expensive McMansions crammed onto teeny tiny lots.
Even then, there is already a big difference between what your money will buy in NOVA and what it'll buy in PG. For 400k you can get a 4br, 2.5 bath home in Bowie built around 1990 with a decent lot, at least. That same money will buy you a teeny tiny old rambler or townhouse in Fairfax. I think that's fair, don't you?
And for what it's worth, I'm speaking from the perspective of someone coming in. Obviously there are a lot of problems within PG, but that's ok. The people who need an education in real estate have gotten that education- the HARD WAY. That's really sad but it's also lot harder to get a mortgage now as a result. I already feel like there is a speculative bubble in a lot of these areas in DC and Virginia, and PG doesn't need that. Multiple investors were offering cash for the house we ended up buying, so I may even be wrong on that front.
Be careful zimar. If you look at pgtitans' new tag, he's moving to VA. He'll then be even more critical of PG after the transformation is complete.
Be careful zimar. If you look at pgtitans' new tag, he's moving to VA. He'll then be even more critical of PG after the transformation is complete.
Your comment is completely ignorant and just a cop out because you can't form an intelligent response which is normal for you. What if I'm in VA? What if I never moved to VA? What if I will never move to VA? What difference does it make to you or anyone on this thread? What if the TVA in my name has nothing to do with Virginia? What's it to you? I have repeatedly stated that I'm a homeowner in PG and will be for the foreseeable future. I'm not saying these things because I like talking about negative things, I'm saying these things because they are facts and directly me and everyone else that is a homeowner in PG. I wish they weren't because that would mean more money for me and everyone else. Who wouldn't want that? And why shouldn't I be critical of PG? You like owning property that has negative value?
A typical adelphi-ish response, can't find anything useful to say so make a personal attack and deflect the topic. Can we get back to the conversation?
Zimar,
I understand your point of view. I've never bought into this idea of being able to pigeonhole any one area (particularly one as large as a county) as "better" than another. I think what is "better" is for each person to decide based on his or her own priorities. Fairfax County or Loudoun County might be "better" than the U Street Corridor if you have a large family, work in Tysons Corner, and good public schools are your top priority. I doubt that many singles who work in the District and value nightlife would agree, though.
I think many communities in PG County offer a lot of real advantages like larger lots, and a relatively close commute to DC. There are disadvantages, of course, like a weaker school system and a higher crime rate. In any case, at current prices, I think that some homes in PG county can be a real value.
If some posters feel NoVa works better for their needs, I wish them well. I wouldn't presume to argue with them about their own priorities and would ask for the same courtesy from them. I know that I am very happy with my own decision to buy a house in Fort Washington just over two years ago. When my friends from DC and NoVa visit me, they are usually pleasantly surprised by what they find.
I don't understand how this conversation got so toxic all of a sudden. I think the point about certain buyers being less savvy than others is an interesting one. How do you get people to do their research? I don't know. I feel like people are so... disconnected to the reality of buying a home. If you are going to spend more than $300k on a purchase, isn't it common sense to at least spend some time on Google and research the issue a bit? There is so much information available and it is so easy to find. With time and more younger people who are web-savvy buying homes hopefully people will figure things out.
Your comment is completely ignorant and just a cop out because you can't form an intelligent response which is normal for you. What if I'm in VA? What if I never moved to VA? What if I will never move to VA? What difference does it make to you or anyone on this thread? What if the TVA in my name has nothing to do with Virginia? What's it to you? I have repeatedly stated that I'm a homeowner in PG and will be for the foreseeable future. I'm not saying these things because I like talking about negative things, I'm saying these things because they are facts and directly me and everyone else that is a homeowner in PG. I wish they weren't because that would mean more money for me and everyone else. Who wouldn't want that? And why shouldn't I be critical of PG? You like owning property that has negative value?
A typical adelphi-ish response, can't find anything useful to say so make a personal attack and deflect the topic. Can we get back to the conversation?
Looks like you really got your panties in a bunch there. lol First of all, the statement was in jest. Notice the wink at the end? Oh. Maybe you didn't because you have trouble comprehending sometimes. So, who's the ignorant one? Second, I don't mind owning property with negative value because I'm not selling, it's not an investment property, and I'm no where near moving out of the area for retirement. I came here to raise a family like a lot of people in this forum. I'm not going anywhere. And if you feel that me attacking people is typical, then you must have me confused with someone else. Lastly, I have no need to deflect on anything written in this forum. I'm not running for office. Sticks and stones dude. Lighten up.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't DC virtually recession proof? I don't see the point that you are trying to make. DC had much different circumstances than PG. Gentrification was never affected by the housing crisis.
DC and its surrounding suburbs were virtually recession proof. Remember, a lot of people who live in PG, Montgomery county, and NOVA work for the Feds or contract for the feds. We all know that PG residents drive west to go to work. Therefore the foreclosure crises wasn't a result of the economy or the loss of jobs. There was targeting marketing towards those who lived in PG to take out adjustable rate mortgages and no proof of income loans. Money knows no color? Tell that to the marketing and sales departments at those loan offices. Tell that to the pawn shops, title loan stores, and Asian-owned black hair care product stores. The loan originators knew what they were doing. They get a cut (origination fee) if the person can pay their mortgage or not.
Originally, ARMs were for people who were staying someone temporarily. For example, if a doctor had a short term residence in another town, they'd get a 5 year ARM knowing they would sell it before the rate adjusted. ARMs were never meant for people to stay in the home longer than the ARM reset. That was the lie told to a lot of people. Even my wife. They tried to sell her a home in Indiana and said that she should get an ARM because she just graduated and her salary would "naturally" increase within the next 3 to 5 years. I'm sure they told many other people that same story. Personally, I don't like anything that will automatically go up outside of my control. So, I always got a fixed rate. I like knowing I will pay the same payment for 30 years. no surprises. But other people saw it as a way to get into a nice home for what seemingly was less money. And they figured they could sell the home at a profit before the ARM readjusted but were caught when values started plummeting. This happened to a lot of those people in the doctor example too. That's why people blame the banks just as well as those who purchased more than they would be able to afford when the ARMs reset. There were millions involved in the real estate crash. And let's be honest, no one buys a house knowing that they will be laid off or that the value will drop 100% in 3 years. So, I would argue that though there are those who bit off more than they could chew, it was a small fraction. My best friend bought his house in Montgomery County and then lost his job 12 months later and is working for half of what he was making 3 years ago.
In conclusion, there are areas in PG that weren't affected by the housing crises either. National Harbor is a good example. It may have slowed new developments, but gentrification is quietly spreading east. Look for it to really take off once the Purple Line is complete. The bad parts of PG were no worse than the bad parts of DC. My wife and I see just as many white people along Georgia Ave. as we see black people now in addition to the drug deals we witness while on Georgia Ave. Now either the new people are oblivious to what's happening or they don't care. And my question is if they can tolerate that in DC, then why not PG?
Zimar,
I understand your point of view. I've never bought into this idea of being able to pigeonhole any one area (particularly one as large as a county) as "better" than another. I think what is "better" is for each person to decide based on his or her own priorities. Fairfax County or Loudoun County might be "better" than the U Street Corridor if you have a large family, work in Tysons Corner, and good public schools are your top priority. I doubt that many singles who work in the District and value nightlife would agree, though.
I think many communities in PG County offer a lot of real advantages like larger lots, and a relatively close commute to DC. There are disadvantages, of course, like a weaker school system and a higher crime rate. In any case, at current prices, I think that some homes in PG county can be a real value.
If some posters feel NoVa works better for their needs, I wish them well. I wouldn't presume to argue with them about their own priorities and would ask for the same courtesy from them. I know that I am very happy with my own decision to buy a house in Fort Washington just over two years ago. When my friends from DC and NoVa visit me, they are usually pleasantly surprised by what they find.
At the end of the day housing is a personal decision what works for one person or couple may not work for others. For some people not paying an arm and a leg for a modern house outweighs subpar schools. However at the end of the day the quality of public schools and perceptions of crime are among the most important criteria of where to live for most people. These factors tend to drive the values at the macro level for most jurisdictions and is probably a good reason why many PG homes are underwater despite the Washington region enjoying relatively strong home values overall.
Looks like you really got your panties in a bunch there. lol First of all, the statement was in jest. Notice the wink at the end? Oh. Maybe you didn't because you have trouble comprehending sometimes. So, who's the ignorant one? Second, I don't mind owning property with negative value because I'm not selling, it's not an investment property, and I'm no where near moving out of the area for retirement. I came here to raise a family like a lot of people in this forum. I'm not going anywhere. And if you feel that me attacking people is typical, then you must have me confused with someone else. Lastly, I have no need to deflect on anything written in this forum. I'm not running for office. Sticks and stones dude. Lighten up.
Sounds like a subliminal subconscious thought than a joke. It didn't come off as a joke and I don't really believe it was, but it doesn't matter because the comment and this stupid conversation is still irrelevant.
Second, just because you aren't selling doesn't mean having a negative property value is good or even okay. Real Estate 101, when people have negative value, they will rent their property out, properties are less taken care of, neighborhoods become less stable and they eventually lose value, which is why negative property value is not good for a community at large because usually no one wins. The rental process is way less evasive and lead to people who have no investment in the community coming in and running it down.
I don't understand how this conversation got so toxic all of a sudden. I think the point about certain buyers being less savvy than others is an interesting one. How do you get people to do their research? I don't know. I feel like people are so... disconnected to the reality of buying a home. If you are going to spend more than $300k on a purchase, isn't it common sense to at least spend some time on Google and research the issue a bit? There is so much information available and it is so easy to find. With time and more younger people who are web-savvy buying homes hopefully people will figure things out.
I wish people would do that, but I don't think this happens very often. There are many examples in this nation where people make a lot of money and make bad decisions. Having money doesn't mean people know how to use it or will be willing to take the time to know how to use it. You also have the culture of spending money which perpetuates these bad decisions. What is really getting people attention, a person like Michelle Singletary who preaches financially literacy or a rapper who tells you to spend all your money? It's what people are choosing and unfortunately you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
At the end of the day housing is a personal decision what works for one person or couple may not work for others. For some people not paying an arm and a leg for a modern house outweighs subpar schools. However at the end of the day the quality of public schools and perceptions of crime are among the most important criteria of where to live for most people. These factors tend to drive the values at the macro level for most jurisdictions and is probably a good reason why many PG homes are underwater despite the Washington region enjoying relatively strong home values overall.
I agree with you that schools and crime are among the most important criteria for most people, and they are major factors that hold down home values in PG County. I have consistently said that if PG County improved the schools, property values would skyrocket. Even so, I still think people are overgeneralizing the issue. Many people pay more per square foot to live in parts of DC with poor schools and relatively high crime than they would pay in the suburbs. Presumably other factors like easy commute and urban lifestyle counterbalance the schools and crime.
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