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Old 01-02-2013, 08:47 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,950,635 times
Reputation: 3222

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Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
DC and its surrounding suburbs were virtually recession proof. Remember, a lot of people who live in PG, Montgomery county, and NOVA work for the Feds or contract for the feds. We all know that PG residents drive west to go to work. Therefore the foreclosure crises wasn't a result of the economy or the loss of jobs. There was targeting marketing towards those who lived in PG to take out adjustable rate mortgages and no proof of income loans. Money knows no color? Tell that to the marketing and sales departments at those loan offices. Tell that to the pawn shops, title loan stores, and Asian-owned black hair care product stores. The loan originators knew what they were doing. They get a cut (origination fee) if the person can pay their mortgage or not.
People still lost jobs. The federal government wasn't the only one who hires people. Many of the state and local governments had hiring freezes and furloughes we play into this so the area wasn't completely recession proof. The difference between PG and the other places you mentioned however, is they have more options of 'other' jobs besides federal jobs.

As far as being targeted, well your logic isn't completed supported because Prince William County had the largest percentage of foreclosures in the region, not PG and PG is twice the size of Prince William. I think the questions comes back to were these people targeted or were they just not wise with their decision making because after all no one told them to sign the dotted line. Do you think they didn't try people of other races?

And with the business owners, is it people targeting color or is it certain color of people demanding certain things. A pawn shop wouldn't be able to stay in business if it didn't have people patronizing them, no? It just makes good business sense. Do you think pawn shop would last in a wealth white neighborhood? Is it because they aren't 'targeting' a white clientele or do they realize that they won't profit as much in a neighborhood with those demographics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
Originally, ARMs were for people who were staying someone temporarily. For example, if a doctor had a short term residence in another town, they'd get a 5 year ARM knowing they would sell it before the rate adjusted. ARMs were never meant for people to stay in the home longer than the ARM reset. That was the lie told to a lot of people. Even my wife. They tried to sell her a home in Indiana and said that she should get an ARM because she just graduated and her salary would "naturally" increase within the next 3 to 5 years. I'm sure they told many other people that same story. Personally, I don't like anything that will automatically go up outside of my control. So, I always got a fixed rate. I like knowing I will pay the same payment for 30 years. no surprises. But other people saw it as a way to get into a nice home for what seemingly was less money. And they figured they could sell the home at a profit before the ARM readjusted but were caught when values started plummeting. This happened to a lot of those people in the doctor example too. That's why people blame the banks just as well as those who purchased more than they would be able to afford when the ARMs reset. There were millions involved in the real estate crash. And let's be honest, no one buys a house knowing that they will be laid off or that the value will drop 100% in 3 years. So, I would argue that though there are those who bit off more than they could chew, it was a small fraction. My best friend bought his house in Montgomery County and then lost his job 12 months later and is working for half of what he was making 3 years ago.
That is only part of it. Some people were looking to re-finance with the opportunity to not only take advantage of the increase in property value and to use equity for other things, but they also were buying homes with lower beginning rates with the ARM with the hope that they would be able to re-finance down the road. That is the reason why refinancing became such a huge issue because many were denied the opportunity to refinance which would have allowed them to escape the higher rates and they weren't able to because many of course at that point were underwater. That is the reason why the government came up with the HAMP loan, to get people to re-finance while being underwater. A lot of this was people who were consciously gambling thinking that their value would stay the same or go over what they owed on their mortgage. For that reason, most of the people in this nation deserve blame.

I don't blame people like your best friend, but I do blame our country as a whole because people began losing jobs as a result of the real estate crash. The real estate market is the lifeline for how this country is able to maintain it's economy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
In conclusion, there are areas in PG that weren't affected by the housing crises either. National Harbor is a good example. It may have slowed new developments, but gentrification is quietly spreading east. Look for it to really take off once the Purple Line is complete. The bad parts of PG were no worse than the bad parts of DC. My wife and I see just as many white people along Georgia Ave. as we see black people now in addition to the drug deals we witness while on Georgia Ave. Now either the new people are oblivious to what's happening or they don't care. And my question is if they can tolerate that in DC, then why not PG?
National Harbor was just opening as the crash happened. It was never really going to suffer much of a crash because it never existed until 2008 which by then the crash was already starting. And there is no comparison to DC. I think it's unfair to PG to expect it to yield similar results as DC. DC has much more to offer given that it is an urban place but also because it is the most stable job center in this nation. Without jobs and development, there wasn't much of a reason for people to go to PG. You see places like Fort Washington selling well because the waterfront properties are a unique selling point, but when you go to other random places like District Heights or Capitol Heights, what is there that would make anyone want to move there besides cheap homes?
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Prince George's County, MD
9 posts, read 13,392 times
Reputation: 25
Happy New Year!
Choosing where to live is very personal and the decision only has to make sense to you and your family. I chose to buy in Prince George's county because I found a place where I could get a lot of house for my money, that is accessible to many commuting routes, that is very safe and in a subdivision that is extremely diverse (e.g. 33% black, 33% white, 22% Indian, 11% Other just on my street). Despite the Post story, not all PG subdivisions are underwater or full of foreclosures. My particular subdivision has had all of two foreclosures/short sales since the bust. All the homes are occupied by owners and the homes sell within days whenever one goes on the market. In talking to my neighbors, they stay because they like living here, not because they can't get out. In scanning the market valuation tools, my neighbors aren't underwater either. This is probably because the subdivision was built before the housing boom and there was very little turnover during it. Accordingly, most owners are original owners so their homes are now actually worth >$100k more than they paid for it. In fact, my home was valued a few thousand dollars more than I paid for it when I bought it a year ago and has risen almost $10K in the last year.

As far as crime is concerned, when I read the news, it is sprinkled all over the DC metropolitan area. There are good neighborhoods and not so good ones all over. Just like the people in Georgetown don't worry about the crime in NE and SE, I'm not concerned about Oxon Hill (which is much farther away from me than those other areas are from Georgetown). My neighborhood and the surrounding area are extremely safe and I grew up in a city so I'm not overly fearful just because I live in PG. While some may desire more shopping (or whatever) else in the county, most subdivisions require a car regardless of the county. Accordingly, I value my central location to easily get to any shopping area I desire without having to put up with the constant traffic caused by living near a commercial center. This is my personal preference. Do I wish the schools were better? Of course. But, as my subdivision is filled with kids, I'm not alone in making the decision that the other benefits outweighed the school issue.

P.S. I typically just read the posts about Prince George's county because it seems like the posts are really continuations of previous posts between a few people. I have no interest participating in a heated back and forth, but am simply expressing my experience that there is more to Prince George's county than the statistics would show. People who are willing to research can find real gems in PG.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:57 PM
 
1,698 posts, read 1,818,782 times
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@divaesq, out of curiosity, do you feel comfortable telling us which part of the county you purchased? I am moving to the Glenn Estates subdivision in Lanham and I get the same general sense about the area, and I'm curious about which other parts of the county are doing well.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:42 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,950,635 times
Reputation: 3222
Quote:
Originally Posted by divaesq View Post
Happy New Year!
Choosing where to live is very personal and the decision only has to make sense to you and your family. I chose to buy in Prince George's county because I found a place where I could get a lot of house for my money, that is accessible to many commuting routes, that is very safe and in a subdivision that is extremely diverse (e.g. 33% black, 33% white, 22% Indian, 11% Other just on my street). Despite the Post story, not all PG subdivisions are underwater or full of foreclosures. My particular subdivision has had all of two foreclosures/short sales since the bust. All the homes are occupied by owners and the homes sell within days whenever one goes on the market. In talking to my neighbors, they stay because they like living here, not because they can't get out. In scanning the market valuation tools, my neighbors aren't underwater either. This is probably because the subdivision was built before the housing boom and there was very little turnover during it. Accordingly, most owners are original owners so their homes are now actually worth >$100k more than they paid for it. In fact, my home was valued a few thousand dollars more than I paid for it when I bought it a year ago and has risen almost $10K in the last year.

As far as crime is concerned, when I read the news, it is sprinkled all over the DC metropolitan area. There are good neighborhoods and not so good ones all over. Just like the people in Georgetown don't worry about the crime in NE and SE, I'm not concerned about Oxon Hill (which is much farther away from me than those other areas are from Georgetown). My neighborhood and the surrounding area are extremely safe and I grew up in a city so I'm not overly fearful just because I live in PG. While some may desire more shopping (or whatever) else in the county, most subdivisions require a car regardless of the county. Accordingly, I value my central location to easily get to any shopping area I desire without having to put up with the constant traffic caused by living near a commercial center. This is my personal preference. Do I wish the schools were better? Of course. But, as my subdivision is filled with kids, I'm not alone in making the decision that the other benefits outweighed the school issue.

P.S. I typically just read the posts about Prince George's county because it seems like the posts are really continuations of previous posts between a few people. I have no interest participating in a heated back and forth, but am simply expressing my experience that there is more to Prince George's county than the statistics would show. People who are willing to research can find real gems in PG.
Happy New Year to you as well! A few thoughts went across my head as I was reading your post. Well, I think that there will be neighborhoods like yours that will be completely solid and then there will be places that are the direct opposite. That is why I said earlier that you are really buying your neighborhood not your house. Your property value is probably aided by the fact that your neighborhood is so stable. If people take care of their homes, have stable incomes and stay in their homes, everyone benefits.

I also don't know how anyone can assess who is or is not underwater (I am still curious how the Post obtained their data and think it's somewhat ironic that such a liberal newspaper tends to go out of the way to put damaging information about PG on a regular basis). It is a very personal thing because we would have to know the loan terms of each individual homeowner. How much is there home valued? How much do they owe on their mortgage? Did they re-finance? Things like that aren't readily available for public use, so it's impossible for me or you to speculate who is or is not underwater. I'm assuming they had access to some sort of data which I'm sure was collected by stripping off people's PII off, but even still their source of information makes me curious to who is collecting this data.

As far as crime, I do understand your point about how crime that isn't near you wouldn't affect you if you live far away from it, but there are two reasons why I believe crime in Oxon Hill should matter to you. For one, because of how the media portrays the county, the county is often times grouped as a whole. Rarely do we ever hear that there was a shooting in Langley Park, no it starts off saying there was a shooting in Prince George's County. For people who have never been in PG, it gives them the perception that the whole county is the same, which is silly but people really believe this. Second, the county is in a very precarious position when it comes to generate tax revenue. Last year it was announced that 71% of the tax revenue comes from residential property. Other local jurisdiction are more at 50%, so for PG when we have a housing crisis like this and people lose value in their homes it affects people like me and you. Reason being because instead of the county being able to pull from a large commercial real estate base, the county is dependent on stable homeowners like me and you to pick up the slack for those homes that aren't being paid for, so property value in various parts of the county absolutely should matter to you, at least until the way we generate tax revenue becomes more balanced, which I do give credit to Baker for recognizing as an issue, I just don't agree with his methods for addressing it (casino).

All in all, people get into real estate for different reasons. People like yourself, adelphi_sky and zimar are buying into this county because you see this as a long term home. You see it as a place that you can spend a lot of years in PG, and you all are the type of people that are going to stable the community that you live in. With that said, there are people who may not be as invested in the communities and look at real estate as a way of making money. Some of those individuals tried to take advantage of what seemed like a golden opportunity to make money off of their home and gambled trying to capitalize off of high market values. Those are the people who are making up these statistics in this article and those individuals are again, putting themselves and the people in their neighborhoods in bad situations. Can you imagine people who are $200k underwater? Some of those individuals will walk away from their property seeing it as impossible to gain that value back, some will simply rent out their homes to cover their mortgage and to generate extra money to pay it down and some will simply stay put because they don't see themselves moving. The first group of people are the ones that I have less sympathy for because they not only hurt themselves but they hurt me and you. The second group I can empathize with but I only support them if they handle renting responsibly instead of just looking for a quick dollar. All in all, it's great to live in a stable neighborhood but this information is disheartening to those that want to move for legitimate reasons (growing family, job relocation, military, etc.).
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:22 PM
 
68 posts, read 121,766 times
Reputation: 77
My two cents. I've lived in Clinton MD for over 2 years. The neighborhood has had no crime in three years (with the exception of traffic accidents). Not even a break-in. It probably helps there are minimal entrances, exits, and many police live in the neighborhood. The majority of neighbors are above 50 years old. It is extremely quiet. I'm guessing there are above 300 houses in the neighborhood. I don't have any kids and right now it's just me and my fiancee. I paid under 290k for a 5 bedroom, 3.5 beds, with full basement on 1/3rd acre of land with no neighbors behind my house (literally hundreds of acres of forest and wildlife from the view of my back deck). For the same in Fairfax and Montgomery county I would have paid over 700k. I didn't have that type of cash and didn't want to live in a prison cell (aka 1 bed room studio in DC) for the same price. Hence the reason I chose this area. At least two of my neighbors paid 170k to 70k more for a slightly larger house before the bust. The schools are a non-factor for me for at least 5 or 6 years. Even then we have enough for private school. If it all comes down to the schools I'd much rather have the extra $410,000 to pay for a private school than to be locked into a house where the school system may or may not flourish 5-10 years from now. For me the only thing the county lacks compared to DC, Fairfax, Montgomery, and Columbia are close high paying job opportunities. This is offset due to relatively light traffic on Branch Avenue up to 295 and Nova (notice I said "relatively"; it can still get heavy). There is a lot to do here. I'm 15 minutes from national harbor, there are a lot of great mid-range places to eat, and we are close to the bay, DC metro station, Indian Head trail (the best place IMHO for cycling), and 30 minutes from Annapolis. For some I'm sure it's not diverse enough. The neighborhood is about 90% Black with the majority of the whites being older and above 50. I'm noticing more white, philipino, and hispanic families moving in. Race has always been a non-factor for me and I honestly don't care what color my neighbors are as long as they are nice. I could be wrong but the only things I think are holding back PG home values are the schools, lack of high paying jobs (hopefully the FBI relocates here), racism (still a lot of folks who want to avoid living around a majority Black area even if it means paying out the nose), and corrupt politicians. As the DC area continues to grow I hope the home values improve but if not I'm still find with paying the mortgage in my current neighborhood.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,630 posts, read 19,379,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdfrommw7 View Post
My two cents. I've lived in Clinton MD for over 2 years. The neighborhood has had no crime in three years (with the exception of traffic accidents). Not even a break-in. It probably helps there are minimal entrances, exits, and many police live in the neighborhood. The majority of neighbors are above 50 years old. It is extremely quiet. I'm guessing there are above 300 houses in the neighborhood. I don't have any kids and right now it's just me and my fiancee. I paid under 290k for a 5 bedroom, 3.5 beds, with full basement on 1/3rd acre of land with no neighbors behind my house (literally hundreds of acres of forest and wildlife from the view of my back deck). For the same in Fairfax and Montgomery county I would have paid over 700k. I didn't have that type of cash and didn't want to live in a prison cell (aka 1 bed room studio in DC) for the same price. Hence the reason I chose this area. At least two of my neighbors paid 170k to 70k more for a slightly larger house before the bust. The schools are a non-factor for me for at least 5 or 6 years. Even then we have enough for private school. If it all comes down to the schools I'd much rather have the extra $410,000 to pay for a private school than to be locked into a house where the school system may or may not flourish 5-10 years from now. For me the only thing the county lacks compared to DC, Fairfax, Montgomery, and Columbia are close high paying job opportunities. This is offset due to relatively light traffic on Branch Avenue up to 295 and Nova (notice I said "relatively"; it can still get heavy). There is a lot to do here. I'm 15 minutes from national harbor, there are a lot of great mid-range places to eat, and we are close to the bay, DC metro station, Indian Head trail (the best place IMHO for cycling), and 30 minutes from Annapolis. For some I'm sure it's not diverse enough. The neighborhood is about 90% Black with the majority of the whites being older and above 50. I'm noticing more white, philipino, and hispanic families moving in. Race has always been a non-factor for me and I honestly don't care what color my neighbors are as long as they are nice. I could be wrong but the only things I think are holding back PG home values are the schools, lack of high paying jobs (hopefully the FBI relocates here), racism (still a lot of folks who want to avoid living around a majority Black area even if it means paying out the nose), and corrupt politicians. As the DC area continues to grow I hope the home values improve but if not I'm still find with paying the mortgage in my current neighborhood.
I know for a fact there was an armed robbery of the Chipotle on Woodyard. To date this is the only Chipotle I've ever been to with security. There have been at least two murders that I can recall off the top of my head although they predate 3 years.

Any how I count quite a few murders in Clinton. So I'm sure there is other crime there as well.

All murders in Prince George's County, MD 2005-2012
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:56 PM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,079 posts, read 9,530,476 times
Reputation: 3780
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
I know for a fact there was an armed robbery of the Chipotle on Woodyard. To date this is the only Chipotle I've ever been to with security. There have been at least two murders that I can recall off the top of my head although they predate 3 years.

Any how I count quite a few murders in Clinton. So I'm sure there is other crime there as well.

All murders in Prince George's County, MD 2005-2012

Hmmmm. That data is kinda hard to nail down. Just from an initial look there are "murders" that involved police shooting the suspect? This can't be considered a murder can it? At least not in the sense of safety. In addition, one murder was listed where the victim was shot in 1989 and died last year at age 50. I assume he didn't die from the gunshot wound over 20 years ago. Is there another site that can weed out these false positives?

PS: The web page says, "Murders in the Mid-Atlantic". So, I assumed all the pushpins were actual murders (killings) by criminals where the victim died immediately or shortly after.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:07 PM
 
68 posts, read 121,766 times
Reputation: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
I know for a fact there was an armed robbery of the Chipotle on Woodyard. To date this is the only Chipotle I've ever been to with security. There have been at least two murders that I can recall off the top of my head although they predate 3 years.

Any how I count quite a few murders in Clinton. So I'm sure there is other crime there as well.

All murders in Prince George's County, MD 2005-2012
I can't speak for the entire city only my neighborhood. I went to the online crime map and didn't see any criminal activity for the past calendar year within my neighborhood (roughly 300 houses). If you go to redfin and type in zip code 20735 you will see Clinton is huge with most of it being rural to semi-rural. The northern portion is the most dense and that is where the Chipotle is located. I'm sure crime occurs somewhere in the county

UPdate: I did check out the map and noticed there were no murders for 2011 or 2012 and over the past 5 years virtually nothing happened between Surratts RD and Brandywine RD. Not a single murder in 6 years in that particular area with only one occuring in 2006
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:49 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 4,426,897 times
Reputation: 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdfrommw7 View Post
I could be wrong but the only things I think are holding back PG home values are the schools, lack of high paying jobs (hopefully the FBI relocates here), racism (still a lot of folks who want to avoid living around a majority Black area even if it means paying out the nose), and corrupt politicians. As the DC area continues to grow I hope the home values improve but if not I'm still find with paying the mortgage in my current neighborhood.
I agree with you. Schools have been a major factor with me, since I have children, but I've managed to make things work with the school system. You do have a good private school or two in the Clinton area, so that helps as well. There are quite a few nice, quiet neighborhoods in Clinton and Upper Marlboro. In fact, in my opinion, those areas might fare better than a lot of the trendiest neighborhoods further north in the county.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Westchester County
265 posts, read 486,918 times
Reputation: 189
bowian--I'm interested in your take on the school system. We will be moving with one who will start high school, so that is critically important for us. Any insight is greatly appreciated!
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