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Oh yes and due to high taxes in Maryland, myself and almost all my friends stock up heavily on alcohol, liquor, and especially cigarettes when we go to Virginia (or West Virginia, North Carolina, or Delaware).
Here is the thing I live in Baltimore County and around here people often don't have the choice to go shopping in other states regularly due to distance. However my friends in Cumberland, Salisbury, Cecil County all regularly go across state lines. I'm sure sales of alcohol in Ocean City have been hurt since the taxes were raised, compared to the other liquor tax in Delaware. Virginia's cigarette tax is less than half that of Maryland's and MANY of my friends buy hundreds of cigarettes when they go to Virginia. I also fill up my gas tank before coming back to Maryland, though to be honest NOVA has higher gas prices than Baltimore due to local taxes BUT most of Virginia has lower taxes and prices than most of Maryland. Gas was amazingly cheap in Winchester, Lynchburg, and Danville.
That is fine, as long as that is accompanied by a change in the allocation of tax dollars as well. The state could change the tax allocation to you get back what you put in. I'm sure nobody would care what you build if that happens. Of course we all know that the clock will then begin to tick down to the widespread closing of entire towns and cities in western Maryland and the eastern shore if that happened from lack of funds to survive.
*Sigh* Our towns are already dying, check the census stats. That is what you don't get. You somehow think this money you are holding over our heads is keeping us afloat.........it isn't. We are still drowning. The state's attempts to throw money at the problem is like shouting instructions on how to swim to a man that is already underwater. The reason we are underwater isn't only downstate policies, but again, I double dog dare you to look at my county and compare it to our neighbors, and find an explanation for our relative weakness other than the Annapolis attitude of tax, regulate, and as you say "We don't support industries that pollute in Maryland."
Fun Fact: If your computer isn't powered by solar or a windmill, you are part of the pollution problem every time you post on here, so don't throw stones at the industries that provide the power you use to live your everyday life.
Point #3 I can move to WV. I can't reroute the Potomac River and take my community with me. I am rooted in my community. My ancestors have lived here for over 200 years. I would greatly prefer not to abandon my community when times get tough to benefit myself. I consider myself a Western Marylander foremost, even more than I consider myself an individual. It will be a horribly sad day if I am forced to leave my home because OUTSIDERS have made it impossible for us to enter the 21st century through Draconian, Big Brother land use policies.
Point #4 PlanMaryland is exactly what those of us in rural regions feared it would be, the state trumping local zoning. You remember Terrapin Run? Well the county (who MOM still proclaims have the ability to zone their own land) zoned that tract of land Tier II. The unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats in Annapolis refused the designation! They say it is a Tier III of Tier IV area, meaning, suitable for trees, not people. So refer to what NBP said. Unfunded mandates and regulatory approvals of septic plans in this "tier system" are the swords the State is using to decide which communities can grow, and which can't.
The MDP specifically took issue with Terrapin Run’s designation. The MDP is requiring the county to hold a hearing on Terrapin Run’s designation. The MDP said Terrapin Run doesn't qualify as a Tier II subdivision and must be designated for conservation, which would not allow for development.
Lastly, it always boils down to the same issue. DON'T TELL US WHAT TO DO. I have don't care what greater D.C. does. Build up, tear down, plant 1,000s of acres of trees, I don't live there, it is none of my business. Yet, people like you see no hypocrisy is creating laws and regulations that allow your areas to grow, build up, increase in wealth, while staring other communities and their natives in the eye and telling us we must remain at a 1950s level of infrastructure, population, and residential options. You make yourselves rich, while keeping us poor. Your attitude is everything that is wrong with Maryland. Here is a better attitude, take care of your own, leave us alone.
Last edited by westsideboy; 02-15-2013 at 03:54 PM..
But don't we want to keep some rural parts of the state rural for the sake of having open spaces for parks and wildlife? I know that people need to make a living where they are, but there has to be a limit no?
Also, it's kind of ironic that some people inside the beltway don't want sprawl and people in rural areas do. I think those in rural areas who want growth should move closer to DC and the NIMBYS inside the Beltway should move to the rural areas. Problem solved!
Who is "we?" You don't live here. You can make as much of PG county open space and forest as you wish, no comment from me. The problem is with this "we" mentality. It normally means "we" in metro Maryland can build new housing, attract industry, fund transportation, sewer and water infrastructure that make your communities more prosperous.
While "we" out in Western Maryland serve as your eco-guilt forest preserves. That doesn't cut it. I don't want to live downstate. I want to live in Allegany County like my ancestors have for over 200 years. Our county is about 75% forest, and has lost over 20k in residential population (down from about 90k to under 70k) since 1950. We have plenty of space to build and attract new residents and business without causing the next great extinction, or spoiling downstate's playground.
Southern Maryland had plenty of space too. Look how that turned out.
Some of the wealthiest counties in the state, plus open space. Sounds pretty good to me.
Honestly, the ruggedness of the mountains is a natural limit on growth. Plenty of room left to live in the valleys and gaze upon the steep forested mountains. Have you been out this way? You can see about 6 residences when you drive from Sideling Hill to Flintstone. Slowing down growth isn't a problem out here. We have been depopulating since 1950. We need taxpayers and jobs, not land preservation. 1/4 of our county is already owned by the State (hey, maybe they should pay property tax to our county for this )
Reading these comments make me more and more convinced that most Marylanders have never been out this way, or don't pay attention when they do drive through or visit.
And no gas taxes should NOT be used to fund mass transit. If they INSIST on building more mass transit which neither the Baltimore nor DC areas need or want, then they should do it using LOCAL sales taxes this way the people actually using the train will pay for it.
Without opining as to the funding source - Tom, both DC and Baltimore need and want better transit. The end.
*Sigh* Our towns are already dying, check the census stats. That is what you don't get. You somehow think this money you are holding over our heads is keeping us afloat.........it isn't. We are still drowning. The state's attempts to throw money at the problem is like shouting instructions on how to swim to a man that is already underwater. The reason we are underwater isn't only downstate policies, but again, I double dog dare you to look at my county and compare it to our neighbors, and find an explanation for our relative weakness other than the Annapolis attitude of tax, regulate, and as you say "We don't support industries that pollute in Maryland."
Fun Fact: If your computer isn't powered by solar or a windmill, you are part of the pollution problem every time you post on here, so don't throw stones at the industries that provide the power you use to live your everyday life.
Point #3 I can move to WV. I can't reroute the Potomac River and take my community with me. I am rooted in my community. My ancestors have lived here for over 200 years. I would greatly prefer not to abandon my community when times get tough to benefit myself. I consider myself a Western Marylander foremost, even more than I consider myself an individual. It will be a horribly sad day if I am forced to leave my home because OUTSIDERS have made it impossible for us to enter the 21st century through Draconian, Big Brother land use policies.
Point #4 PlanMaryland is exactly what those of us in rural regions feared it would be, the state trumping local zoning. You remember Terrapin Run? Well the county (who MOM still proclaims have the ability to zone their own land) zoned that tract of land Tier II. The unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats in Annapolis refused the designation! They say it is a Tier III of Tier IV area, meaning, suitable for trees, not people. So refer to what NBP said. Unfunded mandates and regulatory approvals of septic plans in this "tier system" are the swords the State is using to decide which communities can grow, and which can't.
The MDP specifically took issue with Terrapin Run’s designation. The MDP is requiring the county to hold a hearing on Terrapin Run’s designation. The MDP said Terrapin Run doesn't qualify as a Tier II subdivision and must be designated for conservation, which would not allow for development.
Lastly, it always boils down to the same issue. DON'T TELL US WHAT TO DO. I have don't care what greater D.C. does. Build up, tear down, plant 1,000s of acres of trees, I don't live there, it is none of my business. Yet, people like you see no hypocrisy is creating laws and regulations that allow your areas to grow, build up, increase in wealth, while staring other communities and their natives in the eye and telling us we must remain at a 1950s level of infrastructure, population, and residential options. You make yourselves rich, while keeping us poor. Your attitude is everything that is wrong with Maryland. Here is a better attitude, take care of your own, leave us alone.
Honestly, if your region gives back all the tax dollars it took to build your town, then you can do what you want. Do you all have the money ready? Just provide an invoice at your earliest convience. This is like a child telling their parents what to do in their parents house. Your parents paid for you to have a house to live in. There would be no house without your parents. They brought you in this world, and they can take you out. That goes for western Maryland as well. Unless western Maryland paid for the infrastructure to grow into what they became in the 1940's and 1950's, they have no say in what happens to it unless they feel like paying that loan back now. Think of it as buying out the main shareholder.
You are talking about the decine of western Maryland as if it sprung up on it's own dime. It was built with tax payer dollars from beleive it or not, Baltimore city when it had close to 1 million people back in the 1930's-1950's. I think you need to step back into reality and realize that the growth that made Cumberland grow was financed by the cities of the east.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 02-16-2013 at 06:06 AM..
Honestly, if your region gives back all the tax dollars it took to build your town, then you can do what you want. Do you all have the money ready? Just provide an invoice at your earliest convience. This is like a child telling their parents what to do in their parents house. Your parents paid for you to have a house to live in. There would be no house without your parents. They brought you in this world, and they can take you out. That goes for western Maryland as well. Unless western Maryland paid for the infrastructure to grow into what they became in the 1940's and 1950's, they have no say in what happens to it unless they feel like paying that loan back now. Think of it as buying out the main shareholder.
You are talking about the decine of western Maryland as if it sprung up on it's own dime. It was built with tax payer dollars from beleive it or not, Baltimore city when it had close to 1 million people back in the 1930's-1950's. I think you need to step back into reality and realize that the growth that made Cumberland grow was financed by the cities of the east.
Read a history book dude. Cumberland was the 2nd largest city in the state. It was our natural resources that helped Georgetown and Baltimore grow too. It was a two way street. All tax dollar expenditures are two way streets when times are good. The decisions of those in both private industry and government to build canals, railroads, and the National road out to Cumberland and beyond were to gain access to resources that enriched the East Coast. This tax money wasn't hand-outs, welfare, or gifts of any kind, they were economic decisions, successful ones for BOTH parties involved, us and you.
To play your game, I could demand that since so much of the East Coast's economic prosperity was built on easy access to coal mined from our hills, we should be telling you what to do (I am not.) I could demand that since the electricity you use is most likely powered by coal that comes out of Appalachia's hills, you need to respect our contribution to your life, or cut your power off and live of a windmill.
The influx of money today, in 2013, isn't a substitute for sound policies and regulations that would allow us to survive, and maybe even grow as a community. We need regional solutions for our regional problems. Ones that are very different than the problems your communities face.
Your condescension and ignorance about the real rural Maryland bleeds out in every post you make. You may have some advanced degrees, but you know far less about this state than you think you do, and virtually nothing about the parts that aren't highlighted yellow on your growth maps.
Again, I challenge you to take the time to come out here and see what I am talking about for yourself. Your refusal to consider this is pretty strong evidence you aren't interested in really understanding us, just telling us what to do.
Last edited by westsideboy; 02-16-2013 at 10:27 AM..
Read a history book dude. Cumberland was the 2nd largest city in the state. It was our natural resources that helped Georgetown and Baltimore grow too. It was a two way street. All tax dollar expenditures are two way streets when times are good. The decisions of those in both private industry and government to build canals, railroads, and the National road out to Cumberland and beyond were to gain access to resources that enriched the East Coast. This tax money wasn't hand-outs, welfare, or gifts of any kind, they were economic decisions, successful ones for BOTH parties involved, us and you.
To play your game, I could demand that since so much of the East Coast's economic prosperity was built on easy access to coal mined from our hills, we should be telling you what to do (I am not.) I could demand that since the electricity you use is most likely powered by coal that comes out of Appalachia's hills, you need to respect our contribution to your life, or cut your power off and live of a windmill.
The influx of money today, in 2013, isn't a substitute for sound policies and regulations that would allow us to survive, and maybe even grow as a community. We need regional solutions for our regional problems. Ones that are very different than the problems your communities face.
Your condescension and ignorance about the real rural Maryland bleeds out in every post you make. You may have some advanced degrees, but you know far less about this state than you think you do, and virtually nothing about the parts that aren't highlighted yellow on your growth maps.
Again, I challenge you to take the time to come out here and see what I am talking about for yourself. Your refusal to consider this is pretty strong evidence you aren't interested in really understanding us, just telling us what to do.
I'm sorry but Maryland laws make counties strong and cities come secondary. Being the second largest city in Maryland doesn't mean anything. What was the population pray tell of Cumberland? Lets not act like a population so small supported anything. You were joking right? Also, the industrial industry died long ago for the most part, you either invent yourselves into something else or keep on moving and let the city or town die. You can't expect to hold on to the same industries of yester year. There are thousands of towns going throught the same thing. People move and migrate to where the cities are that are thriving. If you want to stay, that is your choice but the world moves on.
By the way, the good of the many outweigh the good of the few. That will always be the way it works. I didn't have a problem with western Maryland till they started biting the hand that feeds them. How dare they feel like they don't need to contribute to the needs of the urban metros yet they don't pull their own weight. Are you kidding me? Let western Maryland die and shut them off from all money if that is how they feel. Since you guys don't think the state is one state, then separate them. Financially and from a policy standpoint. Problem is, you need the urban metros to survive and West Virginia doesn't want a new mouth to feed.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 02-16-2013 at 10:55 AM..
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I think those in rural areas who want growth should move closer to DC and the NIMBYS inside the Beltway should move to the rural areas. Problem solved!
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