Guess people in Maryland won't be going to Virginia to get gas since they just raised their gas tax

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

This is the best line yet. McMansions and sprawl threatening Allegany County. If I live to see that day, I will be a very lucky man, and we will have a much more prosperous community.

I also love the quote that it is time to move out of the United States because I can see how PlanMD and the Annapolis political agenda hurts my community. Some guy out of grad school in D.C. speaking for the state of Maryland and now the entire country. You can't make this stuff up.

Two words.....

Terrapin Run

That development should have been urban infill. So, why was that option not on the table?

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

Two words.....

Terrapin Run

That development should have been urban infill. So, why was that option not on the table?

Ask the developers.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

I am not a big fan either, but my community needs to put some butts in the seats. We are down 20k from our 1950 population. If it takes chopping down some of that 75% forest cover we have to build the types of houses on the size of lots that people want in the 21st century, I say at least keep the option on the table; right now bureaucrats are regulating it away.

You need jobs before houses. In your perfect world, what do you want in Cumberland? What industry do you think would fit in mountainous Western Maryland that would draw thousands of people and won't impact the ecosystem down the line? Right now, Fredrick is the last outpost. Hagerstown may enjoy the fruits of Fredrick's labor if Fredrick continues to grow. Frostburg has the university. But it's not a major research institution. I'm interested to know what ideas you have?

[David_J]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

What a maroon! We don't have any growth! Our county is still losing population. Nothing that you say applies to where I live, your talking points are about ex-urban/rural counties like Frederick, Carroll, Washington, etc. that do have this kind of growth. All Plan Maryland does it guarantee our decline will continue by making sure we never grow.

Also, the claim "there would be no rural counties without urban areas" is absurd. Ever heard of WV? There biggest city is about the size of Frederick............excepting a handful of big towns/small cities the entire state is rural. Yet, the counties around Allegany in WV have higher median incomes than we do! They have population growth!

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Right now, Fredrick is the last outpost. Hagerstown may enjoy the fruits of Fredrick's labor if Fredrick continues to grow. Frostburg has the university. But it's not a major research institution. I'm interested to know what ideas you have?

I wouldn't even consider Frederick as part of Western/ex-urban/rural MD, as it's been shaped more and more by Montgomery County and is part of the DC metro area. If anything, I'd group Frederick and areas southeast of there (especially Urbana which has more similarities to Montgomery County more than anywhere in Frederick County, having lived there myself) as part of Central MD. People from Frederick rarely go up to Hagerstown; they usually stay within the city or go down to Montgomery County. Thus, they get positive receptions of Montgomery and arguably PG counties as opposed to people in Western MD and the Eastern Shore who seem to hate them. Honestly, we're helping you guys out, not harming you - more development is being made in Western MD these days.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

Two words.....

Terrapin Run

That development should have been urban infill. So, why was that option not on the table?

Because the target market for Terrapin Run were people willing to commute an extra 40 miles. It was to be a competitor to places in Franklin County, PA and Berkeley County, WV that serve as ex-urban outposts for commuters to Hagerstown, Frederick, and maybe closer in. It was to appeal to retirees, people that work from home, or only commute a few days a week. Some Cumberland workers could live there, be closer to nature, in new construction, and still have a short commute. We have the chance to offer cheaper land to people willing to drive a bit further, and thought our county offered a more scenic environment than our competitors.

Cumberland is another 25 minutes west of the Terrapin Run tract. It is an old industrial city that has 1/2 the population it had in 1950. I love it here. I see the beauty. Many others don't. This is in response to Adelphia-Sky too, I would love it if everyone wanted to live in Cumberland, I would absolutely love it. But realistically, most people who grew up in new construction, with a big plot of land, aren't looking for a decaying urban environment. I strongly feel that we need to get every advantage we can on a small scale and bring ourselves back from there piece by piece. Trying to build out by focusing on job recruitment from the dying heart of our isolated region is a strategy we have tried for 60 years, its hasn't worked.

We lose out on industrial jobs because companies look at our city and say, "Old housing stock, no shopping." Commerce says "No jobs, too few people." Potential residents say, "Not enough jobs, where is the shopping?" Something has to give first. If we could add 1,000 or so new houses that were commutable to the outskirts of D.C., we could get rid of one black mark on our resume, the lack of new housing stock.

I would hope that overtime the outlying housing would help attract business and commerce back to Cumberland, and those exurbs looking east, would become suburbs of Cumberland, looking west.

There are no easy answers or quick fixes where I live. They have all been tried and failed. I can tell you one thing: Slamming the door on any significant development in the eastern part of county, cuts us off permanently from the prosperity downstate Maryland enjoys. The housing market won't support building on any level of scale in eastern Allegany County now, but in 5, 10, 20 years, who knows?

Remember we are talking about development on the margin here. Adding 5,000 people to the population in Montgomery, PG, Howard Counties is chump change. 5,000 people choosing to live in Allegany County would be a huge boon. Again, different regions, different realities.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by David_J

I wouldn't even consider Frederick as part of Western/ex-urban/rural MD, as it's been shaped more and more by Montgomery County and is part of the DC metro area. If anything, I'd group Frederick and areas southeast of there (especially Urbana which has more similarities to Montgomery County more than anywhere in Frederick County, having lived there myself) as part of Central MD. People from Frederick rarely go up to Hagerstown; they usually stay within the city or go down to Montgomery County. Thus, they get positive receptions of Montgomery and arguably PG counties as opposed to people in Western MD and the Eastern Shore who seem to hate them. Honestly, we're helping you guys out, not harming you - more development is being made in Western MD these days.

Western Maryland is Allegany and Garrett Counties. I had never heard any different until I went away to college. So when you talk about Hagerstown being Western Maryland, and being quiet sure Urbana and Frederick shouldn't be considered, you aren't speaking the same language as me. Sideling Hill is our demarcation line, with Hancock and Clear Spring being somewhat transitional.

We are a different region, if it helps avoid confusion, please call us Mountain Maryland. The name matters less than the reality that there is a part of Maryland west of Hagerstown that is very different. Just a point of comparison, Hagerstown is about 52 miles from Rockville. Hagerstown is 67 miles from Cumberland. Let me say that again, Hagerstown is closer to Rockville than it is to Cumberland, and there is another 40 miles of Western Maryland past my city.

[Cruzincat]

Originally Posted by pcity

Really? I've never seen any stats on this but I have to believe the number of tourists from Central MD and NoVA using the Bay Bridge dwarfs the number of Eastern Shore people using the bridge. I would guess it would be mostly DC area people paying for the ICC (a DC area road).

I guess there are a sizable amount of commuters from the Eastern Shore who use the bridge every day to commute to the DC area, but that's still the same idea- people who work in, and are dependent on, the DC area are paying for the ICC.

Even if it were mostly Eastern Shorers on the bridge, I'd be curious to see how much money of theirs goes to to the ICC vs. how much money an average Montgomery County taxpayer pays to support the Eastern Shore.

You must not use the ICC very often, if at all. It's a ghost town, even at rush hour. I use it a couple times a month, so actually I am paying twice for the "pleasure".

You would be very wrong to think that occasional users would outnumber the commuters. Even factoring in the discount for the commuter plan, I would bet that the eastern shore residents pay more than vacationers. Now, trucks are a different story.

[Phyxius]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Because the target market for Terrapin Run were people willing to commute an extra 40 miles. It was to be a competitor to places in Franklin County, PA and Berkeley County, WV that serve as ex-urban outposts for commuters to Hagerstown, Frederick, and maybe closer in. It was to appeal to retirees, people that work from home, or only commute a few days a week. Some Cumberland workers could live there, be closer to nature, in new construction, and still have a short commute. We have the chance to offer cheaper land to people willing to drive a bit further, and thought our county offered a more scenic environment than our competitors.

Cumberland is another 25 minutes west of the Terrapin Run tract. It is an old industrial city that has 1/2 the population it had in 1950. I love it here. I see the beauty. Many others don't. This is in response to Adelphia-Sky too, I would love it if everyone wanted to live in Cumberland, I would absolutely love it. But realistically, most people who grew up in new construction, with a big plot of land, aren't looking for a decaying urban environment. I strongly feel that we need to get every advantage we can on a small scale and bring ourselves back from there piece by piece. Trying to build out by focusing on job recruitment from the dying heart of our isolated region is a strategy we have tried for 60 years, its hasn't worked.

We lose out on industrial jobs because companies look at our city and say, "Old housing stock, no shopping." Commerce says "No jobs, too few people." Potential residents say, "Not enough jobs, where is the shopping?" Something has to give first. If we could add 1,000 or so new houses that were commutable to the outskirts of D.C., we could get rid of one black mark on our resume, the lack of new housing stock.

I would hope that overtime the outlying housing would help attract business and commerce back to Cumberland, and those exurbs looking east, would become suburbs of Cumberland, looking west.

There are no easy answers or quick fixes where I live. They have all been tried and failed. I can tell you one thing: Slamming the door on any significant development in the eastern part of county, cuts us off permanently from the prosperity downstate Maryland enjoys. The housing market won't support building on any level of scale in eastern Allegany County now, but in 5, 10, 20 years, who knows?

Remember we are talking about development on the margin here. Adding 5,000 people to the population in Montgomery, PG, Howard Counties is chump change. 5,000 people choosing to live in Allegany County would be a huge boon. Again, different regions, different realities.

I don't see the appeal of Terrapin Run. It's just some subdivision in the forest. It likely will have a homeowners association with a bunch of idiots on the board. Why would people want to sit in a car for 40 minutes to do anything? Are there going to be a grocery store there or any other services or amenities. If not, they have to travel 25 miles away and then drive back. I wonder if I-68 could handle the traffic. No one thinks about these issues until later and then scramble around to fix it when it should of been look into from the beginning. I wouldn't want to live there but I'm sure some will find the appeal in it and then want more.