Violence against Prince George's County Students: What can be done?

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

I guess you don't make it out to the range very often.

Like I said, we come from such different places we are not going to have any common ground to start this discussion. I put gun control up there with abortion and vaccination as issues that are worthless to debate. No one is changing their mind, no one is going to understand why the opposition doesn't see "the facts," and both parties not only see their positions as being "correct" but also being of great importance to protect life or health.

So, please don't take it personally. I get where you are coming from, somewhere where gun violence is a bigger part of life than responsible gun use. Your perspective follows accordingly, as does mine.

I'm not talking about gun use. Like I said, you can use a gun however you feel, I just laid out their primary purpose as designed and intended. I know full well about gun ranges and guns used for hunting. Why is it so hard for gun advocates to admit the primary and designed purpose for guns is to kill effectively and efficiently? A nuclear bomb can clear a patch of forest just as well as loggers can. But we don't use them in that capacity. The primary purpose of a nuclear bomb is for mass killing and destruction. It's secondary purpose is a deterrent. Everything else comes after that. Even if it may be used to clear a forest.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I'm not talking about gun use. Like I said, you can use a gun however you feel, I just laid out their primary purpose as designed and intended. I know full well about gun ranges and guns used for hunting. Why is it so hard for gun advocates to admit the primary and designed purpose for guns is to kill effectively and efficiently? A nuclear bomb can clear a patch of forest just as well as loggers can. But we don't use them in that capacity. The primary purpose of a nuclear bomb is for mass killing and destruction. It's secondary purpose is a deterrent. Everything else comes after that. Even if it may be used to clear a forest.

Because I don't agree with you and explained why. You are implying a use of the tool that is not what 99%+ of the people that buy them use it for. Your personal filter is why you see guns as primarily killing tools, in and of themselves firearms simply expel projectiles towards a target.

Pigeonholing the tool into the "kill" category is a very convenient rhetorical tool, that make doesn't make it good logic. Like I said, we aren't going to find common ground on this issue. I have been around firearms. I know how to use them safely. I have never considered pointing one at another person. I have fired rounds from an AR-15......it was a highly accurate semi-auto rifle. Good for the range. That is what this and nearly every other AR-15 is used for.

I am sorry folks are killing each other with guns down where you live, but the people are doing the killing, not the tools. An old tired line to be sure, but still true. Fix the people or you will still see murder and violence. Prison is a good case study. No firearms or formal weapons to be found........but a very high murder rate because the people wish to kill and will turn anything from a plastic fork or a pillow case into a weapon to accomplish their ends.

[EdwardA]

Originally Posted by tercel95

I don't know that anything will change the culture of the current or near future generations of these kids. The only thing I have ever seen that actually works is gentrification of the area much like DC, but that doesn't fix the problem, it just moves it around. Who knows maybe the legalization of marijuana will help?

Only thing that'll change the culture is force and I doubt that will happen.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I'm not talking about gun use. Like I said, you can use a gun however you feel, I just laid out their primary purpose as designed and intended. I know full well about gun ranges and guns used for hunting. Why is it so hard for gun advocates to admit the primary and designed purpose for guns is to kill effectively and efficiently? A nuclear bomb can clear a patch of forest just as well as loggers can. But we don't use them in that capacity. The primary purpose of a nuclear bomb is for mass killing and destruction. It's secondary purpose is a deterrent. Everything else comes after that. Even if it may be used to clear a forest.

Ok, I see some of your point a bit more clearly, although you will have to explain to me its relevance.

Yes, some firearms are designed for the purpose of killing and deterring being killed. Obviously police officers and military personnel are carrying weapons that are designed to protect themselves and harm others if necessary, not target range weapons.

That out of the way, why does it matter exactly? Using your nuke example. The first nuclear technology was made to wipe out enemy cities. Since then the technology has been used to make relatively clean power sources for both fuel cell (nuke sub) and societal use (nuclear power plant.) So, why does the intent of either the original technology, and SOME of it uses today matter in the grand debate?

What matters is how firearms are used today, right now, by those that own them. Most firearms made today, and 99%+ of all those in use aren't used to kill, or in attempts to kill, or even aimed at people (big no-no.) To move the debate from the practical about what gun owners do, to the philosophical, what are guns "for," completely eliminates the reality on the ground about gun use and creates the very kind of strawman you wish to avoid in these discussions. To pound the podium, so to speak, about the tool being so evil removes the most important element from these conversations, the people using them.

That is the filter I see the debate through. Numbskulls can and do misuse any tool from guns, to knives, to cars, to melted forks, to cause harm to others. Responsible fork owners, I mean gun owners, don't. If numbskulls in your home place are using guns to harm each other, than stop the numbskulls. Trying to take the tool of choice that murderers in your home use away from the rest of us isn't an acceptable solution to those of us that cause no harm and use our rights respectfully.

[Missingatlanta]

What people should really do is write, email, call their local elected officials and let them know they are concerned about the violence in this county. People can go on the PG County government website and write the county exec.

If I were a homeowner here I would definitely be concerned about the property values in the long term and the fact that people here view PG county as a last resort type place to live at in this area.