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Old 04-01-2013, 03:35 PM
 
23,839 posts, read 22,265,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgs_bg View Post
How do you over-enforce a speed limit?

These stats are a little off, though. First of all I am betting that those are total tickets, not just speed tickets. Second of all, the primary law enforcement agency for the ICC is the Maryland Transportation Authority Police (MdTA). They also have jurisdiction to enforce traffic laws outside of the ICC on the roads that in close proximity, so not ALL of the tickets accounted for were for violations on the ICC.

Even so, 7 thousand tickets isn't that much.... comes out to about a total of 14 tickets a day. Figure you have 3-5 officer's working a shift, 3 shifts a day, that's give or take a ticket or two per officer. Don't see what the big deal is.....
Man, you need some help in the statistics department!

Further, i'm really beginning to question whether you even read the article????
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Metro Washington DC
15,046 posts, read 24,003,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgs_bg View Post
Like I said, MdTA Police enforce traffic laws outside of the ICC on nearby roadways.

One to two tickets per officer per shift is not difficult at all. MdTA Police are primarily a traffic enforcement, hightway patrol type agency so that is their job to enforce traffic laws.

Comparing that portion of the beltway and MSP to MdTA and the ICC is apples to oranges. MSP is severly short staffed and typically work below their alotted manpower. That area also receives a lot of crashes compared to the ICC, so that obviously is priority and can be time consuming. Also, most portions of that roadway is not safe what-so-ever to pull a car over. There have been plenty of violators I simply never stopped because it just flat-out wasn't safe to stop them due to traffic/road conditions.
The comparison I'm making is more about what is reasonable. The agency handing out the tickets is irrelevant. They're way over doing it on the ICC. The Beltway is where the state needs to put officers. Get rid of the MdTA Police and send those officers over to the MSP along with the funding saved by cutting out an unnecessary police force (as regards highways, keep a force for transit if necessary). The MSP can handle the ICC just fine.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:03 PM
 
318 posts, read 720,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
Man, you need some help in the statistics department!

Further, i'm really beginning to question whether you even read the article????
My statistics are just fine. I can write it all out and break it down for you if you really don't get it. And yes, I read the the typical one-sided biased news article. And I am telling you what REALLY goes on. Shocked because you actually believe everything the news publishes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf747 View Post
The comparison I'm making is more about what is reasonable. The agency handing out the tickets is irrelevant. They're way over doing it on the ICC. The Beltway is where the state needs to put officers. Get rid of the MdTA Police and send those officers over to the MSP along with the funding saved by cutting out an unnecessary police force (as regards highways, keep a force for transit if necessary). The MSP can handle the ICC just fine.
Never will happen. Can't exactly "get rid" of agencies or transfer officers from one department to the next. MdTA is not funded off tax dollars, but toll revenue which all goes to MdTA, which is an independant agency that falls under MDOT. O'Malley nor any other political body can touch MdTA money, so if toll revenue isn't spent it just sits there. MdTA had enough to fund their own police force off of that money, and it's also where the bulk of the funding for the ICC came from.

I don't believe MdTA Police are "over doing it" (whatever that means); they should be highlighted as the standard for a reasonable amount of manpower IMO. Like I said they have around 3-5 officers working at any given time, which is essential manpower to handle crashes and respond to priority calls. The ICC is slow right now, but traffic IMO will just increase in the future. MSP IMO should have at least 6 officers assigned to JUST the 495 beltway, but right now it's more like 3 or so if you break it down (there is not an assigned number since they have other roadway responsibilities besides the beltway). And those 3 are over-worked which is why those barracks have a high transfer rate.

Last edited by tgs_bg; 04-01-2013 at 05:21 PM..
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Metro Washington DC
15,046 posts, read 24,003,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgs_bg View Post

Never will happen. Can't exactly "get rid" of agencies or transfer officers from one department to the next. MdTA is not funded off tax dollars, but toll revenue which all goes to MdTA, which is an independant agency that falls under MDOT. O'Malley nor any other political body can touch MdTA money, so if toll revenue isn't spent it just sits there. MdTA had enough to fund their own police force off of that money, and it's also where the bulk of the funding for the ICC came from.

I don't believe MdTA Police are "over doing it" (whatever that means); they should be highlighted as the standard for a reasonable amount of manpower IMO. Like I said they have around 3-5 officers working at any given time, which is essential manpower to handle crashes and respond to priority calls. The ICC is slow right now, but traffic IMO will just increase in the future. MSP IMO should have at least 6 officers assigned to JUST the 495 beltway, but right now it's more like 3 or so if you break it down (there is not an assigned number since they have other roadway responsibilities besides the beltway). And those 3 are over-worked which is why those barracks have a high transfer rate.
I thought the officers in the MdTA came from the MSP. Since I'm wrong about that point can be dropped.

Why does the MdTA need a special police force anyways? Disband them and use the money to pay off the ICC and lower future tolls. We have too many different police agencies. You like living in police-states?

There are too many cops patrolling the ICC at the current levels of traffic. IF traffic does increase, then you can add officers as needed. Other agencies can handle any crashes. They do it every day.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
11,097 posts, read 22,624,052 times
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ICC is a joke and a well known speed trap. Cops love it because it's low volume and easy picking and it's easy and safe to pull people over. Pulling people over on the beltway is not only suicidal, it triggers massive backups. Just a cop on the side of the road can trigger a 30 minute or more delay.

The ICC should be 70 mph. It's design and very limited access makes it perfect for those speeds.

Then more people will use it and they can enforce a speed limit that makes sense.
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:25 AM
 
Location: It's in the name!
6,941 posts, read 8,847,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post

Then more people will use it and they can enforce a speed limit that makes sense.

That's just it. People won't use it if you charge them to use it, then give them a ticket for using it. lol Kinda defeats the purpose.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:34 AM
 
318 posts, read 720,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf747 View Post
I thought the officers in the MdTA came from the MSP. Since I'm wrong about that point can be dropped.

Why does the MdTA need a special police force anyways? Disband them and use the money to pay off the ICC and lower future tolls. We have too many different police agencies. You like living in police-states?

There are too many cops patrolling the ICC at the current levels of traffic. IF traffic does increase, then you can add officers as needed. Other agencies can handle any crashes. They do it every day.

Yeah they are two different departments. Besides, highway patrol, they provide law enforcement services for the Port of Baltimore and the BWI airport, so their function is multi-purpose and essential. They also are the primary jurisdiction for the Bay Bridge and the 95/895 cooridor. Both of those are high crash areas (especially the Bay Bridge during the summer). Believe it or not besides a few exceptions, most police departments are understaffed and their officer's overworked, including MSP. MSP couldn't respond to all of MdTA's jurisdiction in a timely manner.... the troopers working at traffic barracks can barely respond to their own calls in a timely manner so MdTA police are essential. In fact, other departments use MdTA Police to assist them on a variety of calls because of that. I don't disagree with you about the current levels of traffic on the ICC, but no one knew the amount of traffic ICC would initially have so they staffed it how they do their other detachments. In law enforcement, taking a position away makes it almost impossible to get back, so it's better to be over-staffed than understaffed. Also ensures the appropriate services can be rendered.

Maryland is by far from a "police state". Police in Maryland as a whole are understaffed and there should be more coverage on the roads.
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Metro Washington DC
15,046 posts, read 24,003,523 times
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I sort of knew the MdTA patrolled other areas, and that it might be necessary in those areas. I see what you're saying, but I still think they're not needed so heavily on the ICC.

I know that Virginia is the one that seems more like a police-state some times, but I had to throw that line in. I do think we have too many different police agencies around here though.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:44 AM
 
318 posts, read 720,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf747 View Post
I sort of knew the MdTA patrolled other areas, and that it might be necessary in those areas. I see what you're saying, but I still think they're not needed so heavily on the ICC.

I know that Virginia is the one that seems more like a police-state some times, but I had to throw that line in. I do think we have too many different police agencies around here though.

Yeah I am not necessarily disagreeing with you about ICC coverage based on the current traffic conditions, I was just trying to put into perspective that 7 thousand tickets isn't that large of an amount if you break it down.

Yes, there are a lot of departments, especially federal agencies that operate here and all of the municipal departments in Prince George's County. Citizens vote on having those municipal departments, though.

Give or take there is approx' 150 law enforcement agencies that operate in the state of Maryland if you include local, state and federal governments.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:50 AM
 
23,839 posts, read 22,265,514 times
Reputation: 9406
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgs_bg View Post
My statistics are just fine. I can write it all out and break it down for you if you really don't get it. And yes, I read the the typical one-sided biased news article. And I am telling you what REALLY goes on. Shocked because you actually believe everything the news publishes?



Never will happen. Can't exactly "get rid" of agencies or transfer officers from one department to the next. MdTA is not funded off tax dollars, but toll revenue which all goes to MdTA, which is an independant agency that falls under MDOT. O'Malley nor any other political body can touch MdTA money, so if toll revenue isn't spent it just sits there. MdTA had enough to fund their own police force off of that money, and it's also where the bulk of the funding for the ICC came from.

I don't believe MdTA Police are "over doing it" (whatever that means); they should be highlighted as the standard for a reasonable amount of manpower IMO. Like I said they have around 3-5 officers working at any given time, which is essential manpower to handle crashes and respond to priority calls. The ICC is slow right now, but traffic IMO will just increase in the future. MSP IMO should have at least 6 officers assigned to JUST the 495 beltway, but right now it's more like 3 or so if you break it down (there is not an assigned number since they have other roadway responsibilities besides the beltway). And those 3 are over-worked which is why those barracks have a high transfer rate.
Actually, your statistics knowledge does need a bit of help. Your analysis is that 14 tickets per day is reasonable. What you failed to look at is the number of tickets as a percentage of overall drivers using the ICC. Indeed, 7,000 tickets could in fact be a very high percentage. That's why the number of tickets as a percentage of drivers has to be looked at. Merely stating that 14 tickets per day is reasonable does not tell the full story.

As far as you reading the article is concerned, you state in a previous post that the 7,000 tickets likely include infractions other than speeding. The article states forthrightly in the very beginning that the study was an analysis of speeding tickets.

From your posts, I gather that you are a law enforcer of some type. Is there any particular reason you are defending law enforcement with your shoddy statistics and inability to understand what you read? Is this the level of intellectual output that we can expect from the typical cop?
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