Retail Redlining (Bowie: price, complaints)

[armory]

I had to take a leave from work for a year to attend a technical class for my job. I worked as a waiter in a nice restaurant in Ballston Commons in Arlington. I can tell you first hand black patrons didn't tip as well as others. Most the waiters and bartenders, regardless of race, said the same of any eatery in the DMV area. the black waiters I worked with were shocked to learn I lived in PGC. Whether or not it is a race issue is not mine to make, I am merely commenting on my experiences. I know waiters, even black, are loathe to provide the same quality of service to those they think might not tip and that may play some part in the restaurant business. I know lots of people want to go to nice big shiny malls/stores like Pentagon City and Tysons and don't really mind the drive to get there. That may be part of the experience. Do you think PGC can support a truly widespread Old Town or Georgetown like setting with regularity? That would mean patronizing those businesses rather than driving out to the others. I would welcome it but I don't want to drive to Bowie to do so when Old Town is 20 min away. Arlington is just as far and I have friends/family over there. They have a wealth of places to shop/dine and the demographics are pretty well mixed up. My nephew attends Washington-Lee HS and his school is a good mix.

[HurricaneDC]

I know waiters, even black, are loathe to provide the same quality of service to those they think might not tip and that may play some part in the restaurant business.

Wouldn't that be a self-fulfilling prophecy? You expect to get tipped like ****, provide poorer service, and end up getting tipped like ****.

[Fast GTO]

There is a lot of self-fulfilling prophecy on this forum.

I'm surprised, not shocked, by what I feel is self-loathing within the black community based on comments I see posted here.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by HurricaneDC

I wouldn't be surprised if race were a factor, but I think it's perceived levels of income that matter more than anything. I think pgvatitans said it well. The Whole Foods in this area are all in higher income locations. I'm honestly surprised that they're opening one in Riverdale Park/Hyattsville.

Why would you be surprised? There have been arguments ad nausea about affluent neighborhoods in PG. Some people would have you think otherwise, which is a simple case of group-think. "Well three people say PGC isn't affluent, it must not be." The project is located between University Park and Riverdale Park. The average median household income in University Park is in the 6-figure range. Take a walk in University Park, Riverdale Park, University Hills, Cool Spring Terrace, Hyattsville, etc. You'll see homes that go for $400k+. Like a lot of people say, PGC has the income to support establishments such as Whole Foods. Half of us drive to MoCo to shop at those establishments already. We'd be able to afford them more by saving gas with them being in our own back yard.

Yes! Organic is crazy expensive. $7 for Organic orange juice? It's more expensive than Whole Foods and they are doing ok in Hyattsville. So has MOMs in College Park. The market is there which is what people have been saying all along.

And as the university gets more of its staff to locate in and around College Park, look for those median incomes to rise. Add in the FBI and there is a case for Whole Foods locating there.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by armory

I know lots of people want to go to nice big shiny malls/stores like Pentagon City and Tysons and don't really mind the drive to get there. That may be part of the experience. Do you think PGC can support a truly widespread Old Town or Georgetown like setting with regularity?

Yes. It takes increased density. Those areas are very densely populated. PGC is still considered a bedroom community as there are no dense central city cores to speak of. National Harbor looks to be on its way to being one. Hyattsville/College Park is moving towards high density as well. Right now there's not enough consistent foot traffic to sustain shopping districts like Georgetown and Old Town. You have 15 transit nodes in PGC that are surrounded by nothing except for PG Plaza which has apartments, offices, and retail all within half a mile. I think RT 1 from Mount Ranier to Beltsville and University BLVD from UMD to Four Corners can eventually become those shopping districts. I give it 15 years.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by HurricaneDC

Wouldn't that be a self-fulfilling prophecy? You expect to get tipped like ****, provide poorer service, and end up getting tipped like ****.

I agree.

[HurricaneDC]

@Adelphi those are good points, and I had forgotten about the potential FBI relocation. I know that Uni Park is well-off, I'm just a bit skeptical on whether or not it'd be enough to sustain a Whole Foods. I know that as a whole, PG does have the income to support a Whole Foods... I'm just wondering whether the well-off families in, say, Woodmore are gonna hike out that far for a WF. I'm excited for it and I really hope it thrives. I know I'll shop there now and then for when I wanna make a special meal.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by HurricaneDC

@Adelphi those are good points, and I had forgotten about the potential FBI relocation. I know that Uni Park is well-off, I'm just a bit skeptical on whether or not it'd be enough to sustain a Whole Foods. I know that as a whole, PG does have the income to support a Whole Foods... I'm just wondering whether the well-off families in, say, Woodmore are gonna hike out that far for a WF. I'm excited for it and I really hope it thrives. I know I'll shop there now and then for when I wanna make a special meal.

I use MOMs in College Park and Yes! Organic Hyattsville as indicators. Both have done just fine in the area. Whole Foods has the same price point and in most cases is cheaper than the current establishments. I would be concerned that MOMs and Yes! Organic would suffer as Whole Foods offers more variety and cheaper prices because of its large national footprint. In addition, there aren't very many traditional grocer options in the area.

People travel for Wegman's in Woodmore. But I don't think Whole Foods pulls that much market. I doubt people past Greenbelt would travel that far. Perhaps the Whole Foods in Riverdale could steal some market share from the one in Silver Spring as a lot of people north of University and east of New Hampshire may travel to that one. Then there is the FDA complex that only has the Giant and Safeway on New Hampshire that could travel to WF in Riverdale.

It will certainly be a test case and unfortunately we won't know until after it arrives. I'll just say that a number of people in the surrounding neighborhoods are pretty excited that it's coming. That says enough right there.

[bowian]

Originally Posted by HurricaneDC

Wouldn't that be a self-fulfilling prophecy? You expect to get tipped like ****, provide poorer service, and end up getting tipped like ****.

Ya think? I think.

[bowian]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I use MOMs in College Park and Yes! Organic Hyattsville as indicators. Both have done just fine in the area. Whole Foods has the same price point and in most cases is cheaper than the current establishments. I would be concerned that MOMs and Yes! Organic would suffer as Whole Foods offers more variety and cheaper prices because of its large national footprint. In addition, there aren't very many traditional grocer options in the area.

People travel for Wegman's in Woodmore. But I don't think Whole Foods pulls that much market. I doubt people past Greenbelt would travel that far. Perhaps the Whole Foods in Riverdale could steal some market share from the one in Silver Spring as a lot of people north of University and east of New Hampshire may travel to that one. Then there is the FDA complex that only has the Giant and Safeway on New Hampshire that could travel to WF in Riverdale.

It will certainly be a test case and unfortunately we won't know until after it arrives. I'll just say that a number of people in the surrounding neighborhoods are pretty excited that it's coming. That says enough right there.

Do you know how the Mom's is doing in Bowie? A bit pricey but I don't have any complaints.