A Case For Mixed-Use vs. Enclosed Mall Sprawl (Baltimore, Woodmore: sales, 2013)

[e30is]

Originally Posted by Khemistry

Hey, I'd be all for PG Plaza to be redeveloped into even the layout of the Fashion Centre at Pentagon City, which is vertical with four levels and it has a hotel attached to it and a parking structure out back. I have had no issues with the layout of that mall. I'm just not a proponent of an outdoor town center.

Same. I went to Singapore and HK for the summer and many many malls were like Pentagon city. I would somewhat agree that I wouldn't advocate an outdoor town center. It would work in SoCal where the weather is 85% nice year round but other places, not entirely. It's not genuinely a bad idea though, but not entirely the best solution.

[$mk8795]

Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70

I support the enclosed mall much more. For one thing, we are talking about Maryland here, not California or South Carolina with nicer weather. In the winter or when it rains I prefer ot go into a mall and be in a climate controlled environment the entire time vs ducking in and out of stores having to take my jacket on and off or take out my umbrella over and over again. My favorite arrangement for a mall (when I do go to one given I really shop mostly at Walmart) is one like Towson where you can park in a garage and walk straight in without having to go outside.

Plus most people do NOT like living in mixed use areas. My parents are LEGAL immigrants and said one of the first things they noticed about America was how residential areas were so private and comfortable and separate from commercial and industrial areas. I personally do NOT want to be within walking distance of any stores or offices or restaurants but want them within a 10 or 15 minute drive that's the best balance. I also prefer to not have mass transit or public transportation in my community. That means certain people can't afford to live in my community, and that is a GOOD thing. Those of yall who disagree with me have only lived in liberal elite bubbles like Potomac or Bethesda, and have never had to deal with crime or the ghetto elements like people here in Baltimore have to deal with. This is why every mass transit project in Baltimore's suburbs if met with fierce opposition, by Carroll County doesn't even want a commuter bus to go there because we know what comes from mass transit. It allows Section 8 trash to move into our neighborhoods and bring their ghetto culture with them, and the same with illegal immigrants in the DC area. I'm perfectly happy living in an area with little mass transit.

They can reduce city budgets by cutting fudning to illegal aliens and abortion clinics and reducing Section 8 housing which destroys communities. And in today's PC world some real estate agents refuse to tell you if there is a lot of Section 8 housing around and this has nothing to do with race I don't want Section 8 neighbors of any color those people are not welcome to move here and cause problems.

I give this post 95% only because I feel that Illegal Immigrants that are here to better themselves and law abiding should be giving the chance to work their way into obtaining US citizenship. Now about the enclosed Malls I totally agree 1000% because Maryland has 4 seasons and having a mixed used town center as the alternative to an upscale enclosed shopping mall will not gain positive economic growth especially during the winter months and with Virginia being the next state over the river with their Tysons Corner, Fair Oaks, Dulles, and Pentagon City it will be hard to keep Retail revenue(local Maryland Tax Payers and Out of State Visitors) within the state of Maryland...

[$mk8795]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I have no problem with enclosed malls. Only the ones in dense areas. As the DC area grows and space becomes scarce, do you really think a mall including its parking taking up 50 acres is really smart economically for the owners? Especially when more than half the stores in the mall can be street retail? If I owned a mall inside the Beltway, I'd definitely redevelop. It's dollars and sense. And it makes sense growth wise to pack as many amenities per acre as possible. Why accept $1000/acre when you can get $2500/acre? In addition, the more people you can get to live in and around your stores, the more profitable those stores become. Who is present around a mall at night when it is closed at 9:30pm? Like I said, the land just sits empty half the time. Of course places like Bowie, Clinton, Upper Marlboro are different. They are not as close to the density issues as the neighborhoods inside the Beltway. Land prices aren't as steep as they are closer to DC.

Your post is very contradicting at best. Most of the areas in PG County are not dense however Arlington, VA is FARRR More Dense than PG County inside the Beltway and Pentagon City Mall continues to remain successful. Soo I am not buying what you are saying because it reads that You do not want PG County to be as successful as Arlington and Tysons Corner, VA with Upscale Revenue Generating Enclosed Shopping Malls........

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by $mk8795

Your post is very contradicting at best. Most of the areas in PG County are not dense however Arlington, VA is FARRR More Dense than PG County inside the Beltway and Pentagon City Mall continues to remain successful. Soo I am not buying what you are saying because it reads that You do not want PG County to be as successful as Arlington and Tysons Corner, VA with Upscale Revenue Generating Enclosed Shopping Malls........

My examples of enclosed malls do not include Crystal City. If you read the thread, you see that I encourage projects with vertically stacked malls within dense areas that also contain a mixed-use type plan. The point was that single-use single-story malls with expansive parking within dense neighborhoods is a waste of space. That's not contradictory.

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by $mk8795

Your post is very contradicting at best. Most of the areas in PG County are not dense however Arlington, VA is FARRR More Dense than PG County inside the Beltway and Pentagon City Mall continues to remain successful. Soo I am not buying what you are saying because it reads that You do not want PG County to be as successful as Arlington and Tysons Corner, VA with Upscale Revenue Generating Enclosed Shopping Malls........

Whaaa...?? He's a vocal supporter for PG County's success and optimistic future. And as for the malls, even though I do think the era of the basic single-level malls is coming to a close, I do think that vertical malls and maybe even underground arcades have a bright future in dense, walkable suburbs with a growing city-lite structure. The Fashion Center at Pentagon City and Crystal City. I could definitely see PG Plaza convert into a vertical mall with a lot of mixed-use development going on around it. In fact, with the large amount of projects in the works that are related to both retail and mixed-use development, this county could finally be on par and maybe even above in some spots with the likes of Arlington, Fairfax, MoCo, and CC.

[e30is]

When I lived in San Diego, Westfield had a mall in downtown called Horton Plaza, like this:




If you enclose it with a roof above, the idea would be perfect. Like I said though, it's outdoor because SoCal / SD has nice weather 85% of the year.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by e30is

When I lived in San Diego, Westfield had a mall in downtown called Horton Plaza, like this:




If you enclose it with a roof above, the idea would be perfect. Like I said though, it's outdoor because SoCal / SD has nice weather 85% of the year.

That's pretty fantastic.

[EducatedBro82]

We all know PG County wouldnt be for having a "mega mall" They want this Town Center look for the county. Look at Brandywine, Bowie, Woodmore, and Laurel.

PG County seems to be gun-ho on a Town Center layout instead of redeveloping existing malls which is why PG Plaza still is only one of the few malls that are successful.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by EducatedBro82

PG County seems to be gun-ho on a Town Center layout instead of redeveloping existing malls which is why PG Plaza still is only one of the few malls that are successful.

Well, PG Plaza has a few things going for it that the other malls didn't.

1. TOD

It certainly helps when you're across the street from a metro stop that in on the same line as Howard, Columbia Heights, and College Park.

2. Density

PG Plaza is in a more dense community than many of the outer suburban malls. Thousands of apartments and hundreds of homes are within walking distance adding to the customers on the Green line.

3. Target

Having target as an anchor brings customers that otherwise wouldn't have gone to the mall to shop.

4. History

It was the first large scale shopping center in PG. So, it has a strong customer base.

[Joke Insurance]

Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70

Plus most people do NOT like living in mixed use areas. My parents are LEGAL immigrants and said one of the first things they noticed about America was how residential areas were so private and comfortable and separate from commercial and industrial areas. I personally do NOT want to be within walking distance of any stores or offices or restaurants but want them within a 10 or 15 minute drive that's the best balance. I also prefer to not have mass transit or public transportation in my community. That means certain people can't afford to live in my community, and that is a GOOD thing. Those of yall who disagree with me have only lived in liberal elite bubbles like Potomac or Bethesda, and have never had to deal with crime or the ghetto elements like people here in Baltimore have to deal with. This is why every mass transit project in Baltimore's suburbs if met with fierce opposition, by Carroll County doesn't even want a commuter bus to go there because we know what comes from mass transit. It allows Section 8 trash to move into our neighborhoods and bring their ghetto culture with them, and the same with illegal immigrants in the DC area. I'm perfectly happy living in an area with little mass transit.

Aren't you going to back up all of your claims? I'd like to know where you heard/read that most people don't like living in mixed use areas and that ALL mass transit brings crime.