National Harbor - News, Events, Updates, Questions and Developments Etc. (Fort Washington: schools, shop)

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by Fast GTO

NH has failing retail because the retail stores are too specialized. They are really boutiques. There needs to be standard retail stores to pull in customers who will shop at the boutiques on the side.

Exactly.

[UrbanScholar]

Not trying to be Johnny Raincloud - I guess someone has to be, here - but it appears this National Harbor thread has shifted its focus exclusively to Tanger National Harbor, which is what the potential NH shoppers will do as well. But, I used to have a thread on NH and its shortcomings, and it appears that National Harbor still has a retail problem. I've talked to several vendors in NH and they (their workers, managers), minus Charming Charlie's, expressed to me the concern about their business. Since talking to people in Hats in the Belfry just less than 3 weeks ago, they shut down their doors. A few weeks before that, Dandelion Patch and Simply Soles (whom I predicted) shut down their doors. Since the Harbor's inception, over 8 retail brands have closed down and 1 restaurant.

Well most have a problem sustaining past the first 5 years of operations unless they are part of a major chain. Also, its common for new shopping centers/areas to have short-term tenants to create the appearance of occupancy especially in down market. Not saying this is the case for all of the stores that closed but it is probably the case for most. The same thing has happened at the Inner Harbor, Tyson's Corner, and Springfield for that matter. Tanger will probably represent the baseline of stores going forward with a smaller mix of local boutiques. It will also be supplemented by whatever stores come with MGM.

NH could self-cannibalize at the rate they are going. Yes, Tanger NH looks good and the projected brand offerings look decent, but I'm just a little confused as to why they didn't make Tanger NH and NH more of a complimentary effort, such as the location of Tanger NH being out of walking distance to NH, providing some type of linkage (trail, walkable bridge, shuttle service, etc.) between the two.

I don't think it will self-cannibalize any time soon. It is evolving as the market improves. remember PG was never known for upscale shopping. That said, Peterson needed to prove that the site was viable to more upscale retailers and maintain a certain occupancy rate. I do agree that they are going to have to address the access issue. I know that they plan to have a shuttle to and from the NH and tanger but a walkable path between the two would be a great second option.

I guess Tanger was meant to service the future MGM. The other strategic move, here, could be the success of the outlet could attract major brands to move into the main NH area.

Maybe in the long run since that is, at best, 3 years away. I think that it is to create a draw for current restaurants and hotels as well as create a draw for new retailers both at and around the harbor.

[UrbanScholar]

Pretty cool.......

Potomac Riverboat, the company that offers a water taxi from National Harbor to Alexandria among other water transportation services, has launched a new taxi route between National Harbor and the National Mall.

Potomac Riverboat launches new water taxi from National Harbor to National Mall - Washington Business Journal

[Fast GTO]

That is a good deal on the water taxi.

BTW, Tanger will likely significantly increase NH traffic.

[UrbanScholar]

Originally Posted by Fast GTO

That is a good deal on the water taxi.

BTW, Tanger will likely significantly increase NH traffic.

True but that will eventually taper off and only be heavy on the weekends and holidays that offer shopping deals.

[Fast GTO]

BTW, I checked the prices on the water taxi. Holy crap...nearly $100 bucks for a family of four to take it round trip. No thanks.

[UrbanScholar]

Originally Posted by Fast GTO

BTW, I checked the prices on the water taxi. Holy crap...nearly $100 bucks for a family of four to take it round trip. No thanks.

Yeah that is nuts......they are obviously going for the tourist dollar..sheesh.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by ajsmith365

Not trying to be Johnny Raincloud - I guess someone has to be, here - but it appears this National Harbor thread has shifted its focus exclusively to Tanger National Harbor, which is what the potential NH shoppers will do as well. But, I used to have a thread on NH and its shortcomings, and it appears that National Harbor still has a retail problem. I've talked to several vendors in NH and they (their workers, managers), minus Charming Charlie's, expressed to me the concern about their business. Since talking to people in Hats in the Belfry just less than 3 weeks ago, they shut down their doors. A few weeks before that, Dandelion Patch and Simply Soles (whom I predicted) shut down their doors. Since the Harbor's inception, over 8 retail brands have closed down and 1 restaurant.

I see this as nothing more than business churn. As UrbanScholar has mentioned in a previous post, this happens in any retail center. This phenomenon is only exacerbated by NH's concentrated retail area. There's not a critical mass to absorb the natural churn that occurs. Even in Old Town across the river, you'll notice boarded up or closed storefronts. BUt no one is concerned that it will affect the other hundreds of stores. We see the closing of stores in enclosed malls as well. To the mall's benefit, there are many other stores that give the impression that the churn is low, which it is having so many other stores to support the shopping experience.

Tanger will add up to 80+ stores to NH. Though not in the heart of NH. The casino should add another 5+ high end stores. Other retailers should fill in gradually.

Lastly, some stores just don't capture the type of shoppers that frequent NH. What works in Old Town may not work in NH. Especially when you have travelers that are loyal to national chains. My wife and I have visited those boutique shops. Nothing compelled us to purchase anything. The one exception was the Willams & Sanoma type store.

[UrbanScholar]

Interesting proposition. It will be interesting to see if this will expedite the WWB Rail option

Metro proposes new Wilson Bridge bus service - Greater Greater Washington

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by ajsmith365

Not trying to be Johnny Raincloud - I guess someone has to be, here - but it appears this National Harbor thread has shifted its focus exclusively to Tanger National Harbor, which is what the potential NH shoppers will do as well. But, I used to have a thread on NH and its shortcomings, and it appears that National Harbor still has a retail problem. I've talked to several vendors in NH and they (their workers, managers), minus Charming Charlie's, expressed to me the concern about their business. Since talking to people in Hats in the Belfry just less than 3 weeks ago, they shut down their doors. A few weeks before that, Dandelion Patch and Simply Soles (whom I predicted) shut down their doors. Since the Harbor's inception, over 8 retail brands have closed down and 1 restaurant.

NH could self-cannibalize at the rate they are going. Yes, Tanger NH looks good and the projected brand offerings look decent, but I'm just a little confused as to why they didn't make Tanger NH and NH more of a complimentary effort, such as the location of Tanger NH being out of walking distance to NH, providing some type of linkage (trail, walkable bridge, shuttle service, etc.) between the two.

I guess Tanger was meant to service the future MGM. The other strategic move, here, could be the success of the outlet could attract major brands to move into the main NH area.

They simply do not have a good mix of stores. Some of the stores are just not really practical, especially for the demographics in the area. When Tanger Outlets are built, they are going to have to re-assess the stores that they have there as it will likely take away quite a bit of business from those shops. The stores aren't cheap enough to attract bargain shoppers and they aren't high end enough to draw people to shop there. Without either one, not sure what incentive people will have to patronize those shops as opposed to going to the outlet mall. It's possible that it can work, but honestly the project doesn't seem as cohesive. Sure there are other places that have been mentioned that have vacancies, but how many have as much space to fill up as National Harbor? Not only will National Harbor have to fill up a mall, but it will also have to maintain those stores without adding things that already exist across the water in Old Town. It's a high concentration of retail real estate. Tyson's Corner is probably the only place with that much shopping in one area, but let's be realistic, it's Tyson's Corner. National Harbor isn't there and may never get to that level.