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According to the Wapo (and one of my buddy's daughter) today's job fair for Tanger had a major turnout. People started lining up at 7am (wow!). To be honest I figured that they would be in the hundreds but not in the thousands. Goes to show the need for jobs be it primary or secondary. Its also good to hear that they are 100% leased. Can't wait to hear who the other stores are.
It's great to have people having opportunities for jobs but that is also a concern. Realistically only about 10% of those who came out will have jobs, so if there are that many people looking for jobs, the who will have money to spend there?
The lady that stated, "these days you need more than one job", really? What happened to our improving economy? It's either people like her are living beyond their means or the jobs that are available do not allow for people to live comfortably. That is not a great sign for the local economy. I think the Tanger success is going to come from visitors mostly. Not sure how healthy the job front is in PG or anywhere right now. People being dependent on retail jobs isn't good for this region which doesn't allow those individuals to live comfortably off that salary.
Last edited by justtitans; 09-18-2013 at 06:41 AM..
It's great to have people having opportunities for jobs but that is also a concern. Realistically only about 10% of those who came out will have jobs, so if there are that many people looking for jobs, the who will have money to spend there?
That's a pretty interesting leap of logic. Before making that leap, one would have to break down exactly who was applying. More than likely there are high school kids, college kids, and those who may already have jobs but are either looking to move up, or looking for a second job. Every single individual at that job fair may not be a grown non-student adult who is currently unemployed. In addition, it was not stated that all applicants lived in PG county.
Who will have money to spend there? The same people that spend money now throughout the greater DC area and beyond. And by the center being an outlet, possibly even more people will be able to afford the discounted prices. The county is 800,000+ strong, 7,000 - 10,000 people are less than 2% of that population assuming everyone was from the county. I'm not saying that unemployment is not an issue in the county, I'm just saying one has to break down he numbers to see exactly who was looking for a job. High schoolers and college kids looking for jobs for shopping or book money don't exactly paint as grim a picture as heads of households looking for jobs.
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The lady that stated, "these days you need more than one job", really? What happened to our improving economy? It's either people like her are living beyond their means or the jobs that are available do not allow for people to live comfortably. That is not a great sign for the local economy. I think the Tanger success is going to come from visitors mostly. Not surs how healthy job front is in PG or anywhere right now.
The economy is improving, but only for the top ten percent. No one is living beyond their means. Salaries have been stagnant for the pas 12 years while inflation and prices have risen. Think about it, I made $12.50/hr as an intern back in 1992. Today's minimum wage still hasn't broken the $10/hr mark 20 years later! It's at minimum a national policy issue. The economy is moving along, just without the middle-class. Grocery and gas prices are astronomical compared to 20 years ago. Minimum wage should be around $14/hr by now to account for inflation over 20 years.
Tanger has a different business model than normal shopping centers. Their main goal is to be a destination shopping center, not a local one. Imagine if Potomac Mills was only meant for the locals in Prince William County. Or that Arundel Mills was only meant for people in Hanover, MD. The intention of these outlet centers is to draw people from across the region. Why do you think the retail mix at outlet centers isn't made up of those stores you can find in your average local mall? If that was the case then it would be JUST a local mall with your Old Navy, Victoria's Secret, and Foot Locker, etc. Not every mall has Peter Millar or Brooks Brothers, or Tommy Hilfiger. So, people will travel from further distances to shop at these stores. Having a large convention center a mile away adds to those numbers.
As far as the overall job front, it is improving, but slowly. Too slow for some. But now that DC killed the living-wage bill, 6 Wal-Marts across the DC line will provide more labor opportunities for those currently looking for jobs in the area. For anything to improve drastically, the minimum wage needs to be higher. People need to make enough to match the rise in the cost-of-living. It's crazy to expect people to live on $2/hr more than what they were making 15 years ago. That math will never add up.
That's a pretty interesting leap of logic. Before making that leap, one would have to break down exactly who was applying. More than likely there are high school kids, college kids, and those who may already have jobs but are either looking to move up, or looking for a second job. Every single individual at that job fair may not be a grown non-student adult who is currently unemployed. In addition, it was not stated that all applicants lived in PG county.
Who will have money to spend there? The same people that spend money now throughout the greater DC area and beyond. And by the center being an outlet, possibly even more people will be able to afford the discounted prices. The county is 800,000+ strong, 7,000 - 10,000 people are less than 2% of that population assuming everyone was from the county. I'm not saying that unemployment is not an issue in the county, I'm just saying one has to break down he numbers to see exactly who was looking for a job. High schoolers and college kids looking for jobs for shopping or book money don't exactly paint as grim a picture as heads of households looking for jobs.
The economy is improving, but only for the top ten percent. No one is living beyond their means. Salaries have been stagnant for the pas 12 years while inflation and prices have risen. Think about it, I made $12.50/hr as an intern back in 1992. Today's minimum wage still hasn't broken the $10/hr mark 20 years later! It's at minimum a national policy issue. The economy is moving along, just without the middle-class. Grocery and gas prices are astronomical compared to 20 years ago. Minimum wage should be around $14/hr by now to account for inflation over 20 years.
Tanger has a different business model than normal shopping centers. Their main goal is to be a destination shopping center, not a local one. Imagine if Potomac Mills was only meant for the locals in Prince William County. Or that Arundel Mills was only meant for people in Hanover, MD. The intention of these outlet centers is to draw people from across the region. Why do you think the retail mix at outlet centers isn't made up of those stores you can find in your average local mall? If that was the case then it would be JUST a local mall with your Old Navy, Victoria's Secret, and Foot Locker, etc. Not every mall has Peter Millar or Brooks Brothers, or Tommy Hilfiger. So, people will travel from further distances to shop at these stores. Having a large convention center a mile away adds to those numbers.
As far as the overall job front, it is improving, but slowly. Too slow for some. But now that DC killed the living-wage bill, 6 Wal-Marts across the DC line will provide more labor opportunities for those currently looking for jobs in the area. For anything to improve drastically, the minimum wage needs to be higher. People need to make enough to match the rise in the cost-of-living. It's crazy to expect people to live on $2/hr more than what they were making 15 years ago. That math will never add up.
Never suggested this was exclusively a PG issue. I am amazed how you drew that conclusion.
I am not trying to make any leaps, it is what it is. People are clamouring for retail jobs! Retail jobs! Sure there are high school and college students who may look but the point is this is a portion of the county that is looking for jobs, but as the article suggested, there are people looking for second jobs. This is not an indictment on those individuals, this is an indictment on the economy. I know people are excited about jobs coming but how many people do you know make a living in this area off of retail? Is anyone else wondering why this many people are looking for retail jobs? Can't be a good sign especially since most won't get a job there.
What is your indication that the economy is improving? Low to Mid level stores are reporting losses including places like Kohl's, JCPenney and Sears/Kmart. People aren't spending money like they use to. On top of that experts are saying unemployment numbers are lowering possibly because some people have stopped looking. Even with that said, it has been about 5 or 6 years and the unemployment rate is still around 7. They say a healthy economy usually has those numbers around 4 or 5. What makes you think we are improving?
It's more than minimum wage, it's the cost of our region. In other parts of our nation, working retail can give enough to make a living but here it just doesn't. I know people in the south who worked at Walmart and lived good but if they were here, they wouldn't be able to afford it. I cringe at the type of life people would have in this area with those type of jobs. It isn't realistic to live like that here. Most of those people need second jobs or having room with others just to make it.
That makes sense for them to have that model which is what pointed out. They are at a resort location so it is expected that they try to attract outsiders. I am just saying they can't expect much from locals.
The Channel 7 article had a woman with two kids at home that has been out of work for nearly two years and they also had a recent college graduate who were both looking for job. How can you not question the economy with stories like that? I don't blame them for looking. You do what you have to, to feed your family but these stories make me wonder where we really are in our economy.
It's great to have people having opportunities for jobs but that is also a
concern. Realistically only about 10% of those who came out will have jobs, so
if there are that many people looking for jobs, the who will have money to spend
there?
At any job fair only a small percentage of the attendees will get jobs. That is the law of averages. Job fairs are meant to create access not guarantees so not sure what your point is there. As for who will spend money there.....everyone who can afford or believe that they can afford to do so. I don't see Tanger or any retailer opening a store in an area that they wouldn't turn a profit. That said there are going to be consumers inside and outside of the county that will be able to afford shopping there and elsewhere for that matter.
Quote:
The lady that stated, "these days you need more than one job", really? What
happened to our improving economy? It's either people like her are living
beyond their means or the jobs that are available do not allow for people to
live comfortably.
Everybody has there own situation...If I remember correctly, she was an admin who was a single parent to two kids. I don't know her primary income but it wouldn't suprise me if she needed a second job (be it short-term or permenant)..I know a lot of fiscally responsible people in this area that have a second source of income....especially if they are a one income household.
Quote:
That is not a great sign for the local economy. I think the Tanger success is
going to come from visitors mostly. Not sure how healthy the job front is in PG
or anywhere right now. People being dependent on retail jobs isn't good for
this region which doesn't allow those individuals to live comfortably off that
salary.
The revenue for most outlets that I have been to have come from consumers not from the immediate area so that is not a surprise. Although the economy has improved, its been a very slow process. That along with the increased number of people in the job market (for various reasons) is why areas such as retail and food services has seen an uptick in the amount of "overly qualified" candidates. I recently read an article about a McDonald's in NY where the you had to have at least a BS/BA to get a job there. As for retail not being a good thing. Remember these are still companies that have a lot of functions that require different skillset and can be financially rewarding. Just because someone starts off as an hourly employee or with a low salary doesn't mean that they have to stay there. When I first got out of college, I was in a management trainee program for a specialty retail chain. I was salaried and if I stayed in on that path, I could have made six figures as a store manager. i decided to go in another direction but having that job allowed me to get a better one. As they say its best to have a job if you are looking for another one. Whether those people yesterday were looking for a career, a start, or a part-time situation, these retail opportunities will afford the ability to have options.
The Channel 7 article had a woman with two kids at home that has been out of work for nearly two years and they also had a recent college graduate who were both looking for job. How can you not question the economy with stories like that? I don't blame them for looking. You do what you have to, to feed your family but these stories make me wonder where we really are in our economy.
The interesting thing about economic improvements is that majority minority and urban communities are usually the last to feel positive changes and the first to feel negative impacts. Given that the current changes are marginal, its not a surprise that the economy is still bleak for certain demographics.
At any job fair only a small percentage of the attendees will get jobs. That is the law of averages. Job fairs are meant to create access not guarantees so not sure what your point is there. As for who will spend money there.....everyone who can afford or believe that they can afford to do so. I don't see Tanger or any retailer opening a store in an area that they wouldn't turn a profit. That said there are going to be consumers inside and outside of the county that will be able to afford shopping there and elsewhere for that matter.
I can't believe you took my point there. Not anywhere near the point that I was making. The only thing I was stating is there are 10000 people looking for jobs. It has nothing to do with the amount of jobs. This is about the amount of people looking for low paying jobs.
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Originally Posted by UrbanScholar
Everybody has there own situation...If I remember correctly, she was an admin who was a single parent to two kids. I don't know her primary income but it wouldn't suprise me if she needed a second job (be it short-term or permenant)..I know a lot of fiscally responsible people in this area that have a second source of income....especially if they are a one income household.
She was a postal worker. The fact that she is a single mother with kids trying to provide is another conversation for another thread. Again nothing against those looking. People do have their own situation, but let me give this perspective. National Harbor has a ton of condos built and soon to be built, how many of these workers could realistically afford to live in one? Do you see the disconnect? You are building communities that even your workers can't live in and you are providing jobs that make it hard for people to afford to live there. Nothing wrong with adding retail but it seems as though the county has dependency on these jobs to help people when really realistically these type of jobs aren't addressing quality of life concerns for these people. People are excited and talking about job growth when it comes to these jobs but that is setting a low bar. Your quality of life is likely not going to be great making retail salary in this region. We should want people to make money comparable to where we live.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanScholar
The revenue for most outlets that I have been to have come from consumers not from the immediate area so that is not a surprise. Although the economy has improved, its been a very slow process. That along with the increased number of people in the job market (for various reasons) is why areas such as retail and food services has seen an uptick in the amount of "overly qualified" candidates. I recently read an article about a McDonald's in NY where the you had to have at least a BS/BA to get a job there. As for retail not being a good thing. Remember these are still companies that have a lot of functions that require different skillset and can be financially rewarding. Just because someone starts off as an hourly employee or with a low salary doesn't mean that they have to stay there. When I first got out of college, I was in a management trainee program for a specialty retail chain. I was salaried and if I stayed in on that path, I could have made six figures as a store manager. i decided to go in another direction but having that job allowed me to get a better one. As they say its best to have a job if you are looking for another one. Whether those people yesterday were looking for a career, a start, or a part-time situation, these retail opportunities will afford the ability to have options.
What is your definition of improving economy? You said the same thing adelphi said, I am curious how you all measure these things to draw that conclusion. In this region we are teflon. We live in an economic bubble where other parts of the country have less going for them. I can only imagine what it must be like, if we are next to DC and people are coming out in large numbers for retail jobs.
There are more people on the job market because there are less jobs. There is no analysis needed people are looking for jobs that don't exist for them unfortunately. There is no need to sugarcoat this, we have less jobs in this country now than a few years ago. That itself would be due to various reasons but more people wouldn't be looking for jobs if there were more or the same amount as there were years ago.
Your anecdote is a bit of a reach. It depends on what industry you work in to determine how beneficial that experience is. People who have Chemical Engineering degrees aren't going to benefit from working retail at Brooks Brothers. Experience is good but once you get to post-college, employers want you to have experience relative to your field. I don't know how old you are, but it is very difficult for the new graduates to find jobs. When you have done 4 years of school, you have student loans and the best job you can get is retail, that is a tough haul. I really feel bad for those who are in that position.
I am sorry, I can't get that excited when that many people need jobs. That is not good.
Last edited by justtitans; 09-18-2013 at 11:45 AM..
I can't believe you took my point there. Not anywhere near the point that I was making. The only thing I was stating is there are 10000 people looking for jobs. It has nothing to do with the amount of jobs. This is about the amount of people looking for low paying jobs.
My bad about the interpretation. In re-reading your comment, I see your point. I still stick to the fact that low wages shouldn't beg the question of who will shop there. That would be two separate issues.
S[quote]he was a postal worker. The fact that she is a single mother with kids trying to provide is another conversation for another thread. Again nothing against those looking. People do have their own situation, but let me give this perspective. National Harbor has a ton of condos built and soon to be built, how many of these workers could realistically afford to live in one? Do you see the disconnect? You are building communities that even your workers can't live in and you are providing jobs that make it hard for people to afford to live there. Nothing wrong with adding retail but it seems as though the county has dependency on these jobs to help people when really realistically these type of jobs aren't addressing quality of life concerns for these people. People are excited and talking about job growth when it comes to these jobs but that is setting a low bar. Your quality of life is likely not going to be great making retail salary in this region. We should want people to make money comparable to where we live.[/QUOTE?]
I see the disconnect but the reality is that the same can be said about most retail/restaurant/hotel workers in the DMV. Think of Downtown DC, Alexandria, Arlington, and Tyson's Corner. Granted they have nearby job centers in their respective areas but most service employees can't afford to live where they work.
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What is your definition of improving economy? You said the same thing adelphi said, I am curious how you all measure these things to draw that conclusion. In this region we are teflon. We live in an economic bubble where other parts of the country have less going for them. I can only imagine what it must be like, if we are next to DC and people are coming out in large numbers for retail jobs.
B
My definition is based on the federal indicators...number of new jobs, property values etc. We may live in an economic bubble but we still had significant job losses. its just they were not as bad as other parts of the country.
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There are more people on the job market because there are less jobs. There is no analysis needed people are looking for jobs that don't exist for them unfortunately. There is no need to sugarcoat this, we have less jobs in this country now than a few years ago. That itself would be due to various reasons but more people wouldn't be looking for jobs if there were more or the same amount as there were years ago.
True there are more people looking for jobs but the reality is that there are still a decent number of jobs. The problem is that the current pool of candidates in the US lack the educational background to fill them.
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Your anecdote is a bit of a reach. It depends on what industry you work in to determine how beneficial that experience is. People who have Chemical Engineering degrees aren't going to benefit from working retail at Brooks Brothers.
My reference is more for non=STEM candidates. Engineering is still a pretty lucrative field so that probability that a person graduating with that degree not being able to find a job is not as likely. Will it be in that exact field? Maybe not but it will probably be technical in some way.
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Experience is good but once you get to post-college, employers want you to have experience relative to your field. I don't know how old you are, but it is very difficult for the new graduates to find jobs. When you have done 4 years of school, you have student loans and the best job you can get is retail, that is a tough haul. I really feel bad for those who are in that position.
That's true but its also how you sell yourself. For someone who is not in a field applicable to retail, yes they need to be strategic in what positions, temporary or otherwise, they pursue. Most of us won't work in a field that we studied but you can control the path that you go in. I graduated during a recessionary period and it was hard finding a job but I found something that I could apply what I learned broadly and also did volunteer work to keep my skills sharp in the area that I was more passionate about.
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I am sorry, I can't get that excited when that many people need jobs. That is not good.
No its not good but its going to be a long haul to full recovery so its not surprising. Would love to see higher paying jobs but in the interim i would rather see someone with a job than no job at all. On a side note, I did swing through the job fair today and the majority of people I saw there looked to be in there late teens/early 20s. What I would expect to see in that field. On a side side note, I felt that half of the people there needed coaching on how to dress for a job fair.
Bloomberg: MGM 'positive' it will get National Harbor deal
Minor update on the MGM project.....although not surprised its interesting to see that their investment has risen to 900M..........although I am curious about what the increase will entail, my guess is that it will be at the billion dollar mark once done.....that wouldn't include the money that they will spend with local businesses
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The company is “positive” about getting the licenses and expects to invest $900 million in Maryland, president and chief marketing officer Bill Hornbuckle said in an interview Wednesday with Bloomberg.
Saw that they they added 12 more stores to their roster. Highlighted the ones that caught my interests
Carter's Babies and Kids
Clarks Bostonian
Justice
Sanibel Sunglass Company
Eddie Bauer Outlet
Express Last Hurrah HUGO BOSS Factory Store
Tommy Bahama
OshKosh B'gosh
Johnny Rockets
Starbucks Coffee Under Armour
It will be interesting to see how a starbuck's does here. Just an odd location considering the hours of the outlet. Wonder if they will open early enough to capitalize on the commuter traffic.
Last edited by UrbanScholar; 09-18-2013 at 06:41 PM..
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Bloomberg: MGM 'positive' it will get National Harbor deal
