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One other thing that really upsets me about this thread's development is the inference that poor = underperforming. It would be bad form to relay my personal experience being raised up in poverty (as there will always be outliers in any situation), but I challenge anyone here to show me that there is a causational relation between the willingness for children to succeed academically and the socioeconomic level of their respective families.
Exceptions don't disprove the rule. Schools with high percentages of students receiving free or reduced lunch perform worse than schools with low numbers of these students.
OMG sometimes I feel like I'm living in some regentrifying inner city or something. Conversations like this and others are why I hesitated to move to PG in the first place. Crime issues, questionable schools, less than lacking retail options. Good Grief. I should have gotten married so I'd have two incomes, live the lifestyle I want -- AND where I really want -- like Potomac, Bethesda, Glen Echo, Chevy Chase -- where these things aren't issues (in the same way).
I'm so tired of hearing about PG's problems and how PG doesn't measure up. Why can't people get their act together in this damned county? It's the same darn issues DECADE after decade.
I pray that because housing prices are lower here -- and there'll always be a market for 'starter homes' -- I can live here until I retire (which is a ways off), sell, and then just leave. And I live in arguably the BEST part of the county. I want Bowie out of PG county.
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Rant over. Hey, I said it was a rant before I started!
Prices are low for reason. By the time you are ready to retire your home may not have appreciated all that much but at least you will recoup some of your mortgage payments when you sell.
I was reading this article about Birmingham. Some woman lived in the home her father bought in the 60s for like 15K. He was one of the first Blacks to move into the neighborhood. Fast forward 50 years later and she sold it for 13k. Hopefully this type of value destruction never happens in PG.
I thought about this as I typed it but schools are merely a reflection of the communities they serve. Besides even parents in Fairfax put their kids in private school. There is always going to be a certain element that will not send their kids to public school. So the middle class send kids to private school meme comes iff as a cop out. If PG was truly middle class there would still be a critical mass of middle class families to draw from.
It's not really a cop out. Studies have shown that couples are taking longer to have children. I'm 40 and about to become a father. Is this growing population taken into account? I could see if counting a majority of families moving in or out of the county were as simple as one demographic. Trying to gauge a county's entire economic demographic from public school enrollment is tenuous at best. It is but one variable in a greater formula.
Personally I feel that public schools shouldn't be the default path to an education. I think more competition improves education for all. To place the burden of education soley on public schools is not sustainable. Yes, public schools, if chosen, should provide an adequate education, but there are other options. And usually the demographic that can afford a private education for their children will almost always chose that route. Just like there are parents in NovA and Montgomery county who, despite strong school systems, still choose private educations for their children. That's not a slight on those school systems. Some parents who are progressive choose different paths for their children that a public school can't provide.
I was just reading a CNN story about St. Jerome Catholic School in Hyattsville that provides a classical education. I think that is attractive to some parents who may have otherwise let their kids attend public school or a regular catholic school. The article doesn't suggest that these schools are an alternative to failing public schools. It is merely another option.
Other parents simply want their kids to have a religious-based educational background. Again, something they can't get in a public school. All of these factors have to be taken into account and not just how many kids are on free or reduced meals. Heck, if your finances are tight enough, you can pull down a middle class income and still need assistance. This happened especially after the housing crash and even more so now that the effects of sequestration are taking hold.
Technically speaking the title of being the wealthiest majority black county doesn't infer that we are middle-class or affluent. It just means that we are wealthier than other black counties in the country. That is not saying much when you factor in other things.
Thank you!
Also, on a more general note, it would be nice to not have this thread evolve into another debate about the state of the county's wealth. Would there be more middle class kids in PG Public Schools if they were better? Yes.
I was reading this article about Birmingham. Some woman lived in the home her father bought in the 60s for like 15K. He was one of the first Blacks to move into the neighborhood. Fast forward 50 years later and she sold it for 13k. Hopefully this type of value destruction never happens in PG.
As a side issue to remember though....
You (we all) have to pay to live somewhere -- rent or mortgage. So at least selling for 13K got her that back. Plus she likely lived in the house for DECADES -- just paying the yearly taxes (and any upkeep, of course). You can't live anywhere for LESS than that. We don't know it she could have lived any where else and made out better. Living somewhere for "practically nothing" for decades -- versus buying a house for hundreds of thousands and having it appreciate....either way you "get some of your living costs" paid back to you.
That's why I plan to retire to a paid off house that's already in the family. Where else could I live for less?
But in this case, it does actually mean that there is a sizable middle-class community. Let's look at the facts: The median household income is higher than the rest of Maryland, yet the size of a PGC household is statistically smaller in size (2.7) than the rest of Maryland (3), and on average pays less for detached housing ($357K) compared to Maryland as a whole ($429K).
The smaller the size of the household, the smaller the cost. Housing is the biggest portion of cost unaffordability in the DMV region, and the fact that people in PGC pay less for housing than the rest of Maryland while having higher median household income illustrates, definitively, that the middle-class is ALIVE AND WELL IN PGC.
By the way, PGC is 63.3% black. Food for thought, especially for those that think PGC is nothing BUT black.
When you compare the housing cost to the rest of MD, you are comparing it to places like Washington County, for example. Would you pay the same price for your home now to live in Washington County? I wouldn't doubt there is a sizable middle-class community in PG, but for the merit of this discussion, the only middle-class people that matter, are ones with school aged kids. How does prices in PG, which is next to DC, compare to a part of MD that is 3-4 hours away from DC?
Then what does 2.7 really mean? Does that mean there are a lot of single parents with 2 kids? A lot of childless couples? A lot of couples with a single child? We don't know because those are just numbers. We can't form a conclusion for the merit of this discussion. It really doesn't matter how middle-class PG is, the real issue centers around a select group of middle-class families who have school-aged kids. If there is a middle-aged family with no kids, then how does that help this issue? That is why a study is needed. All of these figures would be cleared and the room for interpretation would be greatly closed.
It's not really a cop out. Studies have shown that couples are taking longer to have children. I'm 40 and about to become a father. Is this growing population taken into account? I could see if counting a majority of families moving in or out of the county were as simple as one demographic. Trying to gauge a county's entire economic demographic from public school enrollment is tenuous at best. It is but one variable in a greater formula.
Personally I feel that public schools shouldn't be the default path to an education. I think more competition improves education for all. To place the burden of education soley on public schools is not sustainable. Yes, public schools, if chosen, should provide an adequate education, but there are other options. And usually the demographic that can afford a private education for their children will almost always chose that route. Just like there are parents in NovA and Montgomery county who, despite strong school systems, still choose private educations for their children. That's not a slight on those school systems. Some parents who are progressive choose different paths for their children that a public school can't provide.
I was just reading a CNN story about St. Jerome Catholic School in Hyattsville that provides a classical education. I think that is attractive to some parents who may have otherwise let their kids attend public school or a regular catholic school. The article doesn't suggest that these schools are an alternative to failing public schools. It is merely another option.
Other parents simply want their kids to have a religious-based educational background. Again, something they can't get in a public school. All of these factors have to be taken into account and not just how many kids are on free or reduced meals. Heck, if your finances are tight enough, you can pull down a middle class income and still need assistance. This happened especially after the housing crash and even more so now that the effects of sequestration are taking hold.
Congratulations on the child to come.
Quick question, would you support MD having school vouchers?
I'm not sure why so many people are constantly hung up on the affluence or lack thereof when talking about PG county. PG is huge and anyone who has been exposed to the various communities should be able to figure out that the county as a whole embodies the whole spectrum in regards to economic wealth. There are poor people, some folks that are wealthy and then there are a bunch of families in between. Whether you want to classify the county as poor, working class, middle class or whatever; the fact remains that the county is represented by all of these economic demographics.
As far as the public schools are concerned, I for one can vouch for the need of an immediate overhaul. My wife and I moved to Clinton just as our daughter was entering elementary school. As soon as we moved in I fell in love with our neighborhood and always wondered what all the fuss about PG was about. My big mistake was that I greatly underestimated how bad the schools in PG were. I figured that as long as we were visible in the schools and monitored our daughter's progress then there wouldn't be any problems. After one year we pulled our daughter out and sent her to private school. At the end of that first year my daughter's public school teacher even told us privately that she wished there was some way that our daughter could be placed in a program that was more challenging for her. It's readily apparent that the difference between the way the private school operates and how the public school operates are night and day. One example is that in the private school any and all issues are addressed immediately and not minimized or sent through the bureacratic red tape parade. After experiencing both sides I wasn't very surprised to read this article about how many parents in the county with the money to do so end up sending their children to private school.
Believe me, I wish I didn't have to send my daughter to private school. Before I had children I swore up and down that I wouldn't be one of those people that paid property taxes while also also shelling out more money to send my kid to a private school. It still hurts when I think about it, but considering the alternative it's worth it. PG's schools are terrible, there's no doubt about it. Even the so-called high achieving schools in the county aren't all that great. I'm interested to see what is done to bring the school system up to par because it's going to be a huge undertaking.
Quick question, would you support MD having school vouchers?
I would like a system where you can get a tax break if you choose a non-public licensed/certified learning center/institution that charges tuition. The interesting thing is that there aren't enough spots in private schools to accept the proposed thousands of students leaving the public school system for private school. Currently there is no attempt to foster non-public options to relieve the public school system. Contrary to some beliefs, the PGC school system hasn't tanked like in DC where parents were left with no other choice but charter schools. There are still viable public options in PGC which is keeping the proliferation of charter/religious/private schools at a minimum. This puts the PGC school system in purgatory so to speak. It's not good enough to where parents don't have to consider other options, but it's not bad enough either to where those option are plentiful or an absolute necessity.
I would like a system where you can get a tax break if you choose a non-public licensed/certified learning center/institution that charges tuition. The interesting thing is that there aren't enough spots in private schools to accept the proposed thousands of students leaving the public school system for private school. Currently there is no attempt to foster non-public options to relieve the public school system. Contrary to some beliefs, the PGC school system hasn't tanked like in DC where parents were left with no other choice but charter schools. There are still viable public options in PGC which is keeping the proliferation of charter/religious/private schools at a minimum. This puts the PGC school system in purgatory so to speak. It's not good enough to where parents don't have to consider other options, but it's not bad enough either to where those option are plentiful or an absolute necessity.
I wonder if stories like this is going to push for those options to become more plentiful. I have heard about some of the charter schools that PG is trying to implement like the one in junction with UMD. There is clearly a demand which is why the columnist point this out. I remember hearing about a private school in Lanham/Glenarden area that charges something like $40k per year for a student. If people are willing to pay that amount of money, it either speaks to the quality of education there or at least the quality compared to the public school option. Either way, I bet people are going to see that and if Baker is not successful with this movement, that there will be many new private school popping up that will take advantage of the current state of education. There is big money to be had for those families that can afford it.
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