Purple Line Fear Justified Or Misguided? (Baltimore, Silver Spring: 2013, buy, taxes)

[King_of_DC]

Originally Posted by Moth

The Purple Line just strikes me as a bit superfullous as well as unaffordable.

Not sure how you can afford "not" to build a purple line... we need to get people from downtown.

[Fast GTO]

The issue for maryland is revenue and the lack of it compared to VA.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by King_of_DC

Purple line is a good start, but it needs to go in a complete circle. We need to get people out of downtown and have other options when trains break down.

Great point right here. Right now when a Red Line train goes down, people are SOL. The Purple Line could allow for alternate routes in that situation.

[TCR25]

Originally Posted by King_of_DC

Not really... look at the metro system, it goes into DC and goes out... it makes no sense for the traffic that goes on it. It would make much more sense to create a circular train hitting all the end points, but that would be one hell of a project.

Look at a map of London's Tube and then look at DC... You have to go INTO DC to use the metro, if you want to get on the other side of DC. London, you can go in a huge circle and avoid "downtown".

We need connections, not extensions. Extensions bring more people into downtown, which is a mess and can't handle the load now.

Purple line is a good start, but it needs to go in a complete circle. We need to get people out of downtown and have other options when trains break down.

I don't disagree about a circular line connecting the system outside of downtown. The Purple Line is part of that, but looking at it from a cost perspective and existing infrastructure perspective, if your goal is to get Metrorail to National Harbor then a Yellow or Green line extension makes much more sense than trying to route the Purple Line there.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by TCR25

I don't disagree about a circular line connecting the system outside of downtown. The Purple Line is part of that, but looking at it from a cost perspective and existing infrastructure perspective, if your goal is to get Metrorail to National Harbor then a Yellow or Green line extension makes much more sense than trying to route the Purple Line there.

I think you're both saying the same thing but are getting hung up on what the lines should be called. An "extension" of the Yellow or Green Lines can be considered the beginnings of the Purple Line. They don't have to be continued to be called the Yellow or Green lines or be built as heavy rail. It would be a lot cheaper to extend light rail from the Green or Yellow lines to National Harbor. Then fill in the rest as time goes by.

First phase - Build light rail from Yellow Line to National Harbor.
Second phase - Continue light rail from National Harbor to the Green Line.
Third phase - Continue light rail from Green Line to new hospital on the Blue Line.
Fourth - Finish the connection from the new hospital to the Orange Line.

There could be a number of years between each phase. But the most important connection should be National Harbor to the rest of the Metro system. Why the connection to the Yellow Line first and not the Green Line? Attracting out-of-state visitors/money should be a priority. Reagan National is on the Yellow Line.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by TCR25

Extending the Yellow Line from Huntington across the Wilson Bridge and/or the Green Line from Branch Avenue to National Harbor would make much more sense than having the Purple Line go all the way down there.

I used to live in Takoma Park and work in Friendship Heights; the Purple Line would have made that commute easier than taking the Red Line in and back out of the city every day (although it did give me a lot of time to read...). Similarly, the Purple Line would make transit a more viable alternative for my current commute from Hyattsville to Lanham.

Right. I think people are getting confused on the difference between light rail and heavy rail. The purple line will be a great investment for nearly the entire area INSIDE the beltway from New Carleton to Bethesda. It will stabilize areas in decline, make the corridor more livable and bring in transit oriented development.

Extending the metro just give people more reason to live in far flung areas. I'm not against extending the metro, but I think taking care of existing built up areas first should be a priority.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by kcmo

Extending the metro just give people more reason to live in far flung areas. I'm not against extending the metro, but I think taking care of existing built up areas first should be a priority.

I agree with this and it is why the Purple Line makes a lot of sense. Sure we can build metro lines outward, but that detracts from the Beltway communities that have the infrastructure and density to make better use of mass transit. There should be a continued effort to invest in communities inside the Beltway while making outer suburbs a less beneficial choice for people looking to live in the county. Otherwise people and developers will choose to skip over those communities for the outer fringes of the county. That's the reverse of smart growth and good urban planning.

I can't wait to see how communities have changed 10 years after the Purple Line is completed. When and if the Purple Line begins construction, look for properties along the route to be snatched up by developers if they haven't already started.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I agree with this and it is why the Purple Line makes a lot of sense. Sure we can build metro lines outward, but that detracts from the Beltway communities that have the infrastructure and density to make better use of mass transit. There should be a continued effort to invest in communities inside the Beltway while making outer suburbs a less beneficial choice for people looking to live in the county. Otherwise people and developers will choose to skip over those communities for the outer fringes of the county. That's the reverse of smart growth and good urban planning.

I can't wait to see how communities have changed 10 years after the Purple Line is completed. When and if the Purple Line begins construction, look for properties along the route to be snatched up by developers if they haven't already started.

Chicago is a good example of this. Hundreds of miles METRA lines extending WAY out of the city, but not really all that great transit in the inner suburbs for people that live there and want to move between them etc. Such planning creates blight and sprawl.

You have the University of Maryland campus, Silver Spring, Bethesda, New Carrolton all the centers of activity that will be connected and the potential for so much new infill between them along the corridor. And this line should also take a lot of traffic off the beltway because moving between these areas via car is not easy without using the beltway.

Metrorail is far more expensive to build and only creates a few places of TOD because the lines are hidden or very intrusive to development and stations are far apart. Metro outside of DC is basically commuter rail, which really will not lead to a lot of spin off development outside a few stations like Silver Spring. Extending Metro will just bring big parking lots.

Light Rail on the other hand is at a more urban scale that works and brings the urban fabric of a city together. Portland, Denver, Minneapolis etc are examples of this. blocks of low rise residential along the routes etc.

[Moth]

Originally Posted by King_of_DC

Not sure how you can afford "not" to build a purple line... we need to get people from downtown.

I have to disagree. You can tag nearly any transportation project as urgent (ICC anyone?).

The Purple Line is the latest pretext for developers. The MC Council is in bed with them (source: my own councilman).

It is yet another creative way to supposedly "alleviate crowding." Developers will build yet more of the now familiar residential complexes that are touted as green and transit friendly. And they are to some extent. They also house lots of people with lots of cars. They will use the cars more than they use the Purple Line and will thus crowd the roads even more, strain infrastructure, make the already crowded schools even more crowded, and create more need for more cops and firemen with their salaries and pension needs.

MoCo loves to pretend they are for the little guy. The fact of the matter is they give Developers (a subset 'Big Business') anything they want.

Sorry, but Dick Cheney has nothing on these guys.

[King_of_DC]

Originally Posted by Moth

I have to disagree. You can tag nearly any transportation project as urgent (ICC anyone?).

The Purple Line is the latest pretext for developers. The MC Council is in bed with them (source: my own councilman).

It is yet another creative way to supposedly "alleviate crowding." Developers will build yet more of the now familiar residential complexes that are touted as green and transit friendly. And they are to some extent. They also house lots of people with lots of cars. They will use the cars more than they use the Purple Line and will thus crowd the roads even more, strain infrastructure, make the already crowded schools even more crowded, and create more need for more cops and firemen with their salaries and pension needs.

MoCo loves to pretend they are for the little guy. The fact of the matter is they give Developers (a subset 'Big Business') anything they want.

Sorry, but Dick Cheney has nothing on these guys.

What is your suggestion?

As I said before, we need something circular going around the city to get people out of cars. Do you not agree to that? People will not drive if they can get to their place of work quickly, IMO. The point I'm making is to get anyplace in DC on the metro, you must hit downtown (okay, there are exceptions, but you those are the exceptions). I guess you could argue the bus system alleviates that issue, but metro systems are much faster/better/more reliable IMO.

The ICC is a car system... I would use it, but it cost so much... I've not been on it yet. I wanted to use it twice, but I heard you need an easy pass and I don't have one... if you don't have one, then they charge you extra (or so I've heard, this could not be the truth... instead of looking up the truth, I stay off that hwy).

What is your suggestion to ease people out of cars? Let us take a step back and say I'm wrong and you are right... the purple is stupid and we don't need it. What do we do?