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For a place like National Harbor that is okay but if you want to have similar success elsewhere in the county, are people really going to travel that far to work especially when the quality of life is so horrible (traffic, lack of amenities, bad schools)?
I think the last part of your question is why you will continue to butt heads with "certain posters" when discussing these issues. I don't think your critical discussions are bad, but I do think that you assume the quality of life is terrible for most if not all PG residents. And, if they don't see it that way, they should. However, the quality of life is likely not horrible for most, so you will, and have, found a number of posters who will disagree with you.
Let's take traffic. I can travel to MoCo, DC or northern VA, and enjoy myself until I get caught up in traffic. Any desire to live in any of those places disappears with a quickness once I encounter Beltway or DC traffic. And I used to live in DC, MoCo and VA over the years. I've dealt with the least amount of traffic woes here in PG. And the quality of the roads are not horrible here.
Next, lack of amenities. I get most of what I want and need here, and I can order anything else online. I will travel out of the County from time to time to spend money, but most of it is spent in PG. The more varied shopping options that open here, the less I will need to leave the County to shop. Thankfully, things appear to be picking up.
Now, schools. The situation overall is horrible if you believe in public schools, because where you live is pretty limited unless you are willing to shell out for private school. There are many residents who are affluent enough to send several children to private schools without batting an eye. That would be the situation for them regardless of where they live. There are PG parents who send their children to the best DC private schools (Sidwell, etc.). They can have the house, the lifestyle and a great private education without having to also shell out for expensive DC housing. You may not agree with this scenario, but it sure doesn't sound like a horrible quality of life issue to me. Now, if you want to send your child to a public school, you will need to choose carefully and closely monitor your child's progress. Yes, schools need to improve. The best solution for that would be for PGCPS to replicate their best programs throughout the County and remove the ineffective dead weight. Too few students get the best of what the system has to offer.
So, what you perceive as trolling is people who disagree with you. And the spirited debates get personal around here. And some folks want to talk more about what's right with PG than what's wrong. You can't tell people how to respond to you and how to disagree with you, beyond the C-D terms and conditions.
I can't provide a definitive answer to why newer and bigger bulidings are being built aside from the fact they are being built by different developers in different jurisdictions and each developer and jurisdiction is trying to steal tenants from another. It becomes amvicious cycle of sstealing from peter to pay paul. IMO its the community amenities that other areas have that PG needs to address. I think this need trumps improving education in the short-run. Having places to play eat and shop are extremely important to most today. Especially singles or couples with no kids.
I think one has to determine where the job centers will be and focus attention on office space in those areas. Not every neighborhood needs office space. I think with the county's focus on narrowing down where they want downtown to be in the county is a good start. For those downtowns there can be a focus on creating job cores. College Park is a good example. The university should be a major driver in job growth in the county. There is already M-Square which has room to grow as one downtown core. I should say Hyattsville/College Park as they are in the same general area.
Largo is another great location for a growing job core/downtown area with the coming hospital and the offices that are already there including another higher-ed institution in UMUC.
The foundation is there. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of demand for office space. DC is also dealing with vacancy rates. Until we are fully out of this recession, I don't see much demand for office space.
What I do see though is that as these mixed-use "town centers" are built, the office component is fairly small. Usually smaller than the retail portions. A good example is the Cafritz project in Riverdale. I think the office space is around 20% of the retail space planned for that project.
Edit: Forgot about New Carrollton as a downtown job center.
I'm guessing that Prince Georges County HAS to bloom, now more than ever and I've been watching for over 25 years. I would think PG has cheaper housing for families and as that takes root due to the enormous about of people migrating to this area, something has to give. They have cheaper office space as well. So if you own a company, and you live in Lanham, it just makes sense to open an office there. However, with all the vacancies around the entire Washington DC Metro area, including Loudoun, and the need to recruit talented workers, its caused a major setback for this market to come about with regards to office space development.
I can't provide a definitive answer to why newer and bigger bulidings are being built aside from the fact they are being built by different developers in different jurisdictions and each developer and jurisdiction is trying to steal tenants from another. It becomes amvicious cycle of sstealing from peter to pay paul. IMO its the community amenities that other areas have that PG needs to address. I think this need trumps improving education in the short-run. Having places to play eat and shop are extremely important to most today. Especially singles or couples with no kids.
Hey, that's right! Someone said, its " musical chairs". Developer A takes a tenant from Owner B. So Owner B now has a vacancy and it won’t lease for 8 months or longer………….that’s the issue. No real growth in this market. No real job creation causing businesses to expand and take more space or be forced to move due to a lack of space at their current location. Its just musical chairs.....
I think the last part of your question is why you will continue to butt heads with "certain posters" when discussing these issues. I don't think your critical discussions are bad, but I do think that you assume the quality of life is terrible for most if not all PG residents. And, if they don't see it that way, they should. However, the quality of life is likely not horrible for most, so you will, and have, found a number of posters who will disagree with you.
Let's take traffic. I can travel to MoCo, DC or northern VA, and enjoy myself until I get caught up in traffic. Any desire to live in any of those places disappears with a quickness once I encounter Beltway or DC traffic. And I used to live in DC, MoCo and VA over the years. I've dealt with the least amount of traffic woes here in PG. And the quality of the roads are not horrible here.
Next, lack of amenities. I get most of what I want and need here, and I can order anything else online. I will travel out of the County from time to time to spend money, but most of it is spent in PG. The more varied shopping options that open here, the less I will need to leave the County to shop. Thankfully, things appear to be picking up.
Now, schools. The situation overall is horrible if you believe in public schools, because where you live is pretty limited unless you are willing to shell out for private school. There are many residents who are affluent enough to send several children to private schools without batting an eye. That would be the situation for them regardless of where they live. There are PG parents who send their children to the best DC private schools (Sidwell, etc.). They can have the house, the lifestyle and a great private education without having to also shell out for expensive DC housing. You may not agree with this scenario, but it sure doesn't sound like a horrible quality of life issue to me. Now, if you want to send your child to a public school, you will need to choose carefully and closely monitor your child's progress. Yes, schools need to improve. The best solution for that would be for PGCPS to replicate their best programs throughout the County and remove the ineffective dead weight. Too few students get the best of what the system has to offer.
So, what you perceive as trolling is people who disagree with you. And the spirited debates get personal around here. And some folks want to talk more about what's right with PG than what's wrong. You can't tell people how to respond to you and how to disagree with you, beyond the C-D terms and conditions.
Just my 2.5 cents. Carry on.
I disagree with your assessment of those who disagree with me. *When people say things like "I imagine if PGC gained 10,000 more jobs that wouldn't be enough to satisfy the Negative Nellies" you are no longer discussing the merits of what I have stated. *You are painting a picture and creating perception of me based on something I have never said. *I don't mind when people disagree. *As a matter of fact, I expect people to disagree, but what I have a problem with, is you create a perception of me or something that I said and use that as a ground to debate with me. *If you think it's okay to magically create quotes that people have never said, then maybe I should just start doing the same thing.
Honestly I try to be balanced. *There are people on here who assume that someone like myself only has negative things to say about PG and only want to rip PG. *But why? *I own property there, I have family there, it is where I grew up and went to school, why would I want to see PG fail? *Is it possible for me to be critical without just outright wanting a place to fail? *I mean, for example, people complain all the time about how horrible the Redskins are, yet they still consider themselves fans. *Should they only say positive things? *Why not just see reality, which is the team is 3-7? *Should they only talk about how great Alfred Morris is or how RG3 has a lot of endorsements? *The problem with many people in this section and even to some extent in the county, is people are way too thin-skinned. *If you say something negative, it is automatically assumed that you are wrong just because you aren't speaking positively of the county without truly considering the merits of what is being discussed.
Honestly, and I believe I speak for many other people, but the dialogue between UrbanScholar and adelphi_sky, some times becomes nauseating. *I mean there is nothing wrong with being proud about where you live at, but to constantly post up things positive, at times just completely over the top, and anything that is remotely negative gets attacked to the nth degree is one of the reasons why I believe people rarely post on this section. *I mean can't we just talk about what is happening whether it's good or bad. *There has been this constant cry out for only posting positive things, but it's like does that mean the negative things should be ignored? *How do you find a balance?
I respect UrbanScholar at least for being much more diplomatic, but some of the things that Adelphi_sky post up here are irresponsible and just plain ignorant. *Have you noticed that despite the fact that many have disagreed with my views on this thread, he is the only one that has resorted to name calling? *I mean there are times when you can tell he has not done any research, just posting things based on his emotion and trying to defend PG on here or even on the Washington Post website (yes even there) and it's like really? *Is it that serious? *Why can't we just say, you know what Titans, I disagree with you and here's why. *Bowian, I like your approach to this thread. *You didn't agree with me and you explained why. *I can respect that. *Does that mean we agree? *No, but you made your point without delving into other menial tactics. *That is what mature adults do, is it not?
Okay Bowian, so let me address your point.* I am sure some would disagree with my assessment of the "quality of life" being horrible, so let me break my point down.* The example you gave, dealt with your own personal experience.* If someone, for example wanted to go to Harris Teeter to get those amazing cookies they have, anyone in PG has to drive outside the county, where if you are living somewhere else like Alexandria, or Fairfax for example, then you may not have to go as far.* Who has it better, the people who live closer or the people who live further?
Or how about working?* Let's say both me and you work in Tysons.* From where I live, I can take a commute bus which is right down the street from where I live and go straight to Tysons and be there in about 40 minutes.* For you, you would either have to drive all the way there or drive to a metro station and take the train there.* Your commute is likely an hour and half.* Who has the more convenient commute?* What about if the job was in DC around Capitol Hill?* Same options apply for both of us with your commute being close to an hour and mines would be about 40 minutes.* Who commute is better?
Will you have less traffic in PG?* I am sure, but look how far someone would have to go, just to get to work if they work outside the county.* Or look at what they have to do just to go to a particular store that the county doesn't offer?* If I lived in the county and wanted to go to Whole Foods, right now, I would have to travel far, but how does that compare to someone that lives near Whole Foods?
What is my point?* There is relativity here to the discussion.* Although you could be very comfortable with what you do to get to work or to get to your favorite stores, the point is there are always better options if you aren't near those places.* Don't you think it's more convenient to live near your job than further away if you work outside of PG?* Don't you think it's more convenient to have more amenities within your community, than to have to travel to get to them?* For all the places you can live in this region, where does PG rank to you in it's access to these amenities?* These things do weigh on people's minds and they drive property value.* If PG was truly as great an option, than why isn't there the same demand in housing for PG as opposed to other places?* What is the negative side of moving to places that are closer to where you work/shop besides money?* If it's money then aren't there other places in this region that give less expensive options but better schools?* What makes PG better than the alternative?
And as far as schools, it's not just about sending your kids to school that is important.* It's about how schools affect your property value too.* Is it worth buying in a bad school district if your property value isn't going to improve?* Or even if you have kids, if you have enough money to send your kids to Sidwell Friends or wherever, why would you need to live that far out?* Why not move closer?* Why not move to where schools are better and there are still private school options?* Do people do these things that you have mentioned?* Sure, the question is though, how much are these things done?* If these are truly options that most have considered, than shouldn't PG County's real estate market thrive like the rest of the region?**
*
You turned a disadvantage into a lack of creativity. You are correct in that the NIH and the FDA helped to foster the biotech corridor. Just like the Pentagon helped to foster the defense industry in NoVa. Let's see what PGC has. Andrews AFB. Not much spin off potential there. Census Bureau. Statistics contractors? The IRS. Tax software industry maybe? NASA. There is opportunity there, but the Feds have cut NASA's budget. The FBI is promising in the forensics industry realm.
Personally I think the best shot for PGC is the NSA and cyber security. There is room for more growth in the software/hardware industry. I can see where UMD can be a catalyst for start-ups that may choose to locate between the NSA, UMD, and potentially the FBI.
It's always easy to provide examples of counties who have enjoyed the presence of agencies that can create private large sector industries. But again, it is well known that the GSA has favored other jurisdictions over PGC for these types of agencies. I think it is unfair for those to expect PGC to grow an industry from the ground up in these economic times without the help from the government that other counties have enjoyed since the 50s.
I disagree. What's wrong with a viable tourism industry to supplement revenue? I think any county in the country would look at that statement with curiosity and would ask why not grow tourism.
I'm not so sure NH fell out of the sky being planned for decades.
I'm guessing that Prince Georges County HAS to bloom, now more than ever and I've been watching for over 25 years. I would think PG has cheaper housing for families and as that takes root due to the enormous about of people migrating to this area, something has to give. They have cheaper office space as well. So if you own a company, and you live in Lanham, it just makes sense to open an office there. However, with all the vacancies around the entire Washington DC Metro area, including Loudoun, and the need to recruit talented workers, its caused a major setback for this market to come about with regards to office space development.
Here's the problem:
The.
Schools.
Still.
Suck.
As a note I'm a 30 year employee of the school system.
As far as office space goes, Prince George's has that enterprise fund for enticement. Don't you think that when things start to really get tight that the other jurisdictions will have one, too?
Okay Bowian, so let me address your point.* I am sure some would disagree with my assessment of the "quality of life" being horrible, so let me break my point down.* The example you gave, dealt with your own personal experience.* If someone, for example wanted to go to Harris Teeter to get those amazing cookies they have, anyone in PG has to drive outside the county, where if you are living somewhere else like Alexandria, or Fairfax for example, then you may not have to go as far.* Who has it better, the people who live closer or the people who live further?
Or how about working?* Let's say both me and you work in Tysons.* From where I live, I can take a commute bus which is right down the street from where I live and go straight to Tysons and be there in about 40 minutes.* For you, you would either have to drive all the way there or drive to a metro station and take the train there.* Your commute is likely an hour and half.* Who has the more convenient commute?* What about if the job was in DC around Capitol Hill?* Same options apply for both of us with your commute being close to an hour and mines would be about 40 minutes.* Who commute is better?
Will you have less traffic in PG?* I am sure, but look how far someone would have to go, just to get to work if they work outside the county.* Or look at what they have to do just to go to a particular store that the county doesn't offer?* If I lived in the county and wanted to go to Whole Foods, right now, I would have to travel far, but how does that compare to someone that lives near Whole Foods?
What is my point?* There is relativity here to the discussion.* Although you could be very comfortable with what you do to get to work or to get to your favorite stores, the point is there are always better options if you aren't near those places.* Don't you think it's more convenient to live near your job than further away if you work outside of PG?* Don't you think it's more convenient to have more amenities within your community, than to have to travel to get to them?* For all the places you can live in this region, where does PG rank to you in it's access to these amenities?* These things do weigh on people's minds and they drive property value.* If PG was truly as great an option, than why isn't there the same demand in housing for PG as opposed to other places?* What is the negative side of moving to places that are closer to where you work/shop besides money?* If it's money then aren't there other places in this region that give less expensive options but better schools?* What makes PG better than the alternative?
And as far as schools, it's not just about sending your kids to school that is important.* It's about how schools affect your property value too.* Is it worth buying in a bad school district if your property value isn't going to improve?* Or even if you have kids, if you have enough money to send your kids to Sidwell Friends or wherever, why would you need to live that far out?* Why not move closer?* Why not move to where schools are better and there are still private school options?* Do people do these things that you have mentioned?* Sure, the question is though, how much are these things done?* If these are truly options that most have considered, than shouldn't PG County's real estate market thrive like the rest of the region?**
*
You type a lot but you never say anything of importance... your posts read like those adults on Charlie Brown. Honestly, you type so much to put a place down? Even when your posts don't make any sense?
For example, I'm looking for a house and looking in Mont, PG, VA, and DC. I own too many guns for DC so that is all but out. Now dollar for dollar I get the same travel time from PG, Mont, and VA... and I work near the White House.
It is not that people are against you, it is the fact that you don't post real facts. You confuse people who are not from the area...
Hell, I know kids who graduated from PG schools who are lawyers, gov't workers, private industry, college system... and even a dentist.
And I don't even live in PG.
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