What will it take for PG county to be progressive? (Baltimore: big home, buy)

[NorthEast Coast 202]

Okay I know the county has improved and there are some great projects in the works.

BUT.

PG county, in my opinion, functions more like an exurban county (think Prince William co in VA) than an inner ring suburban county.

1. Transit in PG county on weekends if HORRIBLE, Sundays aren't even do-able. Buses start too late in the morning, end too early in the evening, and the headways.... I won't even get started on that one. PG county of 15 metro stations and most of them are under-utilized. The only station in PG that has true TOD is PG plaza. The rest of them have minimal to no development.

2. This could redundant to #1 but PG lacks a real "downtown" like Silver Spring or Bethesda. I don't get it, the Blvd and New Carrollton should've resembled Silver Spring, and it could, if the county gets serious. Branch ave and Greenbelt stations could be downtown areas as well. I want PG to reach its potential one day in my life time, I'm only 25. But I legit think its going to take 100 years or more to do so. I'll be optimistic though, maybe the purple line can be a game changer. But the National Harbor needs rail transit and PG needs to stop making the areas inside the beltway so car friendly.

3. Routes 4, 5, and 210 and phuking awful. These three highway should have been interstates or at least expressways from the jump. They need to either be converted or rail lines need to be built along them.

What do you guys think?

In the meantime I really, really think PG (and Charles) should invest in great bus service (like MoCo has been doing for ages) and get people the hell out of their cars. PG is co car-centric that it rivals Atlanta and Charlotte........ not a good look especially since it has the blessing of having heavy rail spokes AND two commuter rail lines.

[bufflove]

Yep.

At least PG now talks as if they "get it" w/the need to funnel much, much more development towards their SEVERELY underutilized metro stations. Any other jurisdiction would kill for all the low-hanging fruit and opportunity that PG sits on.

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by NorthEast Coast 202

Okay I know the county has improved and there are some great projects in the works.

BUT.

PG county, in my opinion, functions more like an exurban county (think Prince William co in VA) than an inner ring suburban county.

1. Transit in PG county on weekends if HORRIBLE, Sundays aren't even do-able. Buses start too late in the morning, end too early in the evening, and the headways.... I won't even get started on that one. PG county of 15 metro stations and most of them are under-utilized. The only station in PG that has true TOD is PG plaza. The rest of them have minimal to no development.

I agree. As I have stated before, PG doesn't really have an identity. It is a huge county, land wise, so it's hard to make it one way or another. They probably should focus that type of project that you mentioned in the inside the beltway. Outside the beltway, it just isn't dense enough to justify it.

Originally Posted by NorthEast Coast 202

2. This could redundant to #1 but PG lacks a real "downtown" like Silver Spring or Bethesda. I don't get it, the Blvd and New Carrollton should've resembled Silver Spring, and it could, if the county gets serious. Branch ave and Greenbelt stations could be downtown areas as well. I want PG to reach its potential one day in my life time, I'm only 25. But I legit think its going to take 100 years or more to do so. I'll be optimistic though, maybe the purple line can be a game changer. But the National Harbor needs rail transit and PG needs to stop making the areas inside the beltway so car friendly.

I really think Largo would have been that place. It has the government services, it is more centralized than Upper Marlboro and has plenty of land to develop that they can build that type of "county center" type area. I don't think it will take 100 years but they are dealing with years of poor leadership. I believe Baker is good for the county but I'm not so sure about other leaders in PG.

Originally Posted by NorthEast Coast 202

3. Routes 4, 5, and 210 and phuking awful. These three highway should have been interstates or at least expressways from the jump. They need to either be converted or rail lines need to be built along them.

What do you guys think?

A little birdy told me that the 210 project may get delayed again because the state no longer has the money for it. Take it with a grain of salt, but if that is true, then there is no relief in sight. Just poor planning on PG and the state.

Originally Posted by NorthEast Coast 202

In the meantime I really, really think PG (and Charles) should invest in great bus service (like MoCo has been doing for ages) and get people the hell out of their cars. PG is co car-centric that it rivals Atlanta and Charlotte........ not a good look especially since it has the blessing of having heavy rail spokes AND two commuter rail lines.

When I was living in Accokeek, I used to go to Waldorf to use their bus service. It is honestly the biggest waste of time. The problem with a bus service is there are no HOV or express lanes to take advantage of. I am amazed at how no legislators have though about making a bus lane on any of those highways in southern MD. It is a cheaper alternative to building a rail and it would give people an incentive to ride the bus instead of driving.

[$mk8795]

Get rid of the anti-Growth Tansit talking hustlers that do their d--- best to prevent Highways from being built which contributes to PG County have less Business Growth than Northern Virginia......

Say what you want about PW County but at least they are making efforts to improve their Highways and Expanding highways.... They know Got D--- well the B-W Parkway needs to be 8 lanes from DC to Baltimore and US Highway 50 needs to be a dual with I-66 as an 8 lane(I'm aware of the HOV lane) Interstate from DC to the Eastern Shore.....

Originally Posted by NorthEast Coast 202

Okay I know the county has improved and there are some great projects in the works.

BUT.

PG county, in my opinion, functions more like an exurban county (think Prince William co in VA) than an inner ring suburban county.

1. Transit in PG county on weekends if HORRIBLE, Sundays aren't even do-able. Buses start too late in the morning, end too early in the evening, and the headways.... I won't even get started on that one. PG county of 15 metro stations and most of them are under-utilized. The only station in PG that has true TOD is PG plaza. The rest of them have minimal to no development.

2. This could redundant to #1 but PG lacks a real "downtown" like Silver Spring or Bethesda. I don't get it, the Blvd and New Carrollton should've resembled Silver Spring, and it could, if the county gets serious. Branch ave and Greenbelt stations could be downtown areas as well. I want PG to reach its potential one day in my life time, I'm only 25. But I legit think its going to take 100 years or more to do so. I'll be optimistic though, maybe the purple line can be a game changer. But the National Harbor needs rail transit and PG needs to stop making the areas inside the beltway so car friendly.

3. Routes 4, 5, and 210 and phuking awful. These three highway should have been interstates or at least expressways from the jump. They need to either be converted or rail lines need to be built along them.

What do you guys think?

In the meantime I really, really think PG (and Charles) should invest in great bus service (like MoCo has been doing for ages) and get people the hell out of their cars. PG is co car-centric that it rivals Atlanta and Charlotte........ not a good look especially since it has the blessing of having heavy rail spokes AND two commuter rail lines.

[$mk8795]

Thats the problem. You can not force development near transit stations if its far more expensive than developing an area from scratch. Most of the stations in PG County is already developed and it is not going to attract the same type of Development as Fairfax County and Loudoun County. Its done the wrong way PG County should have developed extremely densed with Office and Upscale Retail then build the subways to connect to the Modern Developing areas. Thats how Tysons Corner was developed......

Originally Posted by bufflove

Yep.

At least PG now talks as if they "get it" w/the need to funnel much, much more development towards their SEVERELY underutilized metro stations. Any other jurisdiction would kill for all the low-hanging fruit and opportunity that PG sits on.

[diablo234]

Tyson's Corner is a giant clusterf*ck that is congested nearly 24/7, and even Fairfax County officials are trying to have that area redeveloped to make it more transit/pedestrian friendly which costs a lot more when you are working with an area that is already developed as opposed to an open space. I would rather prefer that PG County use Arlington County and Montgomery County as examples for encouraging TOD, which is already happening to an extent with the US 1 corridor in College Park/Hyattsville seeing redevelopment. That being said though I do agree with the fact that there needs to be a freeway connecting La Plata/Waldorf with I-495 since US 301/MD Route 5 is incapable of handing existing traffic loads.

[NorthEast Coast 202]

Originally Posted by $mk8795

Thats the problem. You can not force development near transit stations if its far more expensive than developing an area from scratch. Most of the stations in PG County is already developed and it is not going to attract the same type of Development as Fairfax County and Loudoun County. Its done the wrong way PG County should have developed extremely densed with Office and Upscale Retail then build the subways to connect to the Modern Developing areas. Thats how Tysons Corner was developed......

Cleverly? No development.
Landover? No development.
New Carrollton? Under developed.
Addison road? So-so, could be a lot better.
Morgan Blvd? So-so, meh....
College Park? Yuck....

Won't even get to the rest.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by NorthEast Coast 202

Okay I know the county has improved and there are some great projects in the works.

BUT.

PG county, in my opinion, functions more like an exurban county (think Prince William co in VA) than an inner ring suburban county.

1. Transit in PG county on weekends if HORRIBLE, Sundays aren't even do-able. Buses start too late in the morning, end too early in the evening, and the headways.... I won't even get started on that one. PG county of 15 metro stations and most of them are under-utilized. The only station in PG that has true TOD is PG plaza. The rest of them have minimal to no development.

To answer you question, PG should be doing exactly what it is doing now. they have passed recent legislation with incentives to develop around metro stations. Their focus is on the 15 metro stations within the county. Though some longstanding projects outside the beltway and away from transit like Konterra and Westphalia weren't included in that focus.

I'll be optimistic though, maybe the purple line can be a game changer. But the National Harbor needs rail transit and PG needs to stop making the areas inside the beltway so car friendly.

There's good reason to believe the Purple Line will be a game changer. All the current major job and transit centers in the county will be connected by the Purple Line. This will spur more development along the purple line in the county.

3. Routes 4, 5, and 210 and phuking awful. These three highway should have been interstates or at least expressways from the jump. They need to either be converted or rail lines need to be built along them.

There is a lot of residential development out in Upper Marlboro and I think that is a mistake. Upper Marlboro is about as far from any job center as you can get in PG. Thy are enticing people with big homes for low prices. I hope those people know that when Westphalia comes online, RT. 4. will be a beast during rush hour. That will spill over into other roads. When looking at PG Planning, there's always permits being requested for some housing development in Upper Marlboro. They are just creating a commuting nightmare for people who buy into it.

Here's an idea, make Upper Marlboro a retirement community where people can retire in open spaces low traffic and not have to bother coming into or towards DC except on the weekends.

In the meantime I really, really think PG (and Charles) should invest in great bus service (like MoCo has been doing for ages) and get people the hell out of their cars.

They have a bus service called The Bus. And it should be expanded. Also, the county should look at Bus Rapid Transit for 210 and Rt. 4. like Montgomery County.

PG is co car-centric that it rivals Atlanta and Charlotte........ not a good look especially since it has the blessing of having heavy rail spokes AND two commuter rail lines.

I have to disagree here. All of DC's surrounding counties are car-centric. There is no county that wins awards for walkability and public transit. Sure they have their walkable clusters, but overall, TOD is a fairly new trend that is only a few decades old. Service began at PG Plaza just 20 years ago.

I'd say PG is about 10 years late on this trend. And again, the recession didn't help. That killed and or delayed a lot of TOD projects around College Park and Prince George's Plaza.

[UrbanScholar]

Originally Posted by NorthEast Coast 202

Cleverly? No development.
Landover? No development.
New Carrollton? Under developed.
Addison road? So-so, could be a lot better.
Morgan Blvd? So-so, meh....
College Park? Yuck....

Won't even get to the rest.

The metro owned land around Morgan Blvd is had just received a bid to be redeveloped by Trammell Crow. Metro recently released similar rfps for College Park and Largo. This should provide a nice boost. Especially for Largo who will also host the new regional hospital for PG. Its a slow start but a start nonetheless. As previously mentioned, they need to develop an identity for these areas as the begin to take shape. This will help to establish more defined "downtown centers" that target certain themes or groups (e.g. the arts district or the technology corridor) going forth.

[NorthEast Coast 202]

I wonder... how did Silver Spring develop an identity. If seemed like a "coming of age" suburb in the 70's and 80's.