The Supposed Affluence of PG County (Baltimore, Bowie: rentals, low crime, homes)
Washington, DC suburbs in MarylandCalvert County, Charles County, Montgomery County, and Prince George's County
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MarlowHeights, this idea that the black residents in the county are more concerned about retail and restaurants than schools and crime is a myth. It just isn't true. In the past 2 weeks I've been to 2 anti-crime rallies. One was in Forestville on Saturday and the other was in Marlow Heights at Iverson Mall the previous Saturday. On Saturday, there were lots of civic association and HOA members from District 3 at the event, which I think includes Marlow Heights. They have formed partnerships with PGPD and are doing whatever they can to assist with crime reduction. The District 3 captain thanked them profusely for helping to get crime down 30% so far this year, and set the goal at 50% by the end of the year. If more of these events were covered by the press, I think your perception might change. I have an aunt and uncle who have lived in the same house in Marlow Heights since the early 70s. Their neighborhood is still relatively quiet, but obviously that cannot be said of every neighborhood around them.
The dedication of residents in District 3 is showing us that it is possible to improve communities without the benefit of new development and without expelling law abiding, low income residents.
laurelengineer: “Further, it is not the County taxpayer's role in life to try and solve a millennia-old problem.”
I’m not so sure. The county taxpayer should take a more proactive approach if the community is not progressing/developing in a suitable manner. If crime is a problem then the taxpayer should inquire into how the money is being spent in law enforcement. If you see young people hanging around and not engaged in constructive activities, one should ask why this is so. I have the sense that the county taxpayer has the ultimate responsibility to oversee what the folks are doing who they have put in charge.
laurelengineer: “Look at every local county's crime map. You'll see that it is always centered around apartment complexes. Sorry, but crime is directly correlated with the proportion and concentration of renters.”
Crime is correlated with economic variables as you find higher crime in low income neighborhoods with single family homes as well. I venture to say that the apartments are crime ridden due to the economic status of SOME of the residents as opposed to the fact that they happen to be living in garden style apartments. My friend lives in North Potomac in one of those master planned setups that have clusters of massive four story garden style apartments but there is no sense of serious/petty crime at all. Small one bedroom units start at $1300 per month. If the same type of setups existed in inner beltway neighborhoods in PGC, the low income folks would not be able to afford it.
laurelengineer: “YES - it does make sense to export the poor to other jurisdictions. The geographic concentration of poverty has led to the east-west income divide that this region currently tolerates. PG has way too good of a transportation infrastructure to not have a huge job base. Frankly, it's completely wasted because employers don't want to relocate to areas with substandard housing.”
Two things about this comment: moving the poor around has never proved to be a viable solution. PGC residents have lamented this point as it relates to DC pushing its poor residents into PGC. Also the east-west income divide you speak of is particularly disturbing in that it further illustrates the new chauvinist ideal that is taking hold of our communities and that’s classism…the new and improved racism if you will. This thread is a discussion about the “affluence” in PGC. If your assertion is shared by the affluent blacks of the county then it’s quite ironic that they now want to get rid of the black poor because they are creating a negative image of PGC and driving away economic development and prosperity that others desire; the pot calling the kettle black…literally!
matt: “They have formed partnerships with PGPD and are doing whatever they can to assist with crime reduction.”
A great start and I hope these partnerships address some of the economic and social issues that affect crime.
matt: “The District 3 captain thanked them profusely for helping to get crime down 30% so far this year, and set the goal at 50% by the end of the year. If more of these events were covered by the press, I think your perception might change. “
Maybe. But when you look at the crime stats for this district from Jan 05 to Jan 06 it’s still quite staggering. There appeared to be a slight reduction in violent crime but non-violent crimes seemed to be holding steady. I hope some creative and radically different ideas emerge from the partnerships that can really make a dent in these numbers.
matt: “The dedication of residents in District 3 is showing us that it is possible to improve communities without the benefit of new development and without expelling law abiding, low income residents.”
I agree.
I think these stats further illustrate the correlation between economic factors and crime. Particularly districts I, III and IV are the smallest in square miles but had the most violent crime (murders) and nuisance burglaries and larceny. These districts are more densely packed which combined with other factors such as the lower overall income of the residents further exacerbates the crime problems. In District II which includes Bowie and Upper Marlboro there were no murders from Jan 05 to Jan 06 and districts V and VI had less violent and non-violent crime overall.
Matt you made sound points that provide more context for the discussion as a whole.
I think these stats further illustrate the correlation between economic factors and crime. Particularly districts I, III and IV are the smallest in square miles but had the most violent crime (murders) and nuisance burglaries and larceny. These districts are more densely packed which combined with other factors such as the lower overall income of the residents further exacerbates the crime problems. In District II which includes Bowie and Upper Marlboro there were no murders from Jan 05 to Jan 06 and districts V and VI had less violent and non-violent crime overall.
The January '06 UCR index for District II shows that there were no murders in December '05 and January '06, not that there were none at all between 05-06.
I don't know about Upper Marlboro, but there were 2 murders in Bowie in 2005 (2 in '06 and 2 so far this year too), which isn't that bad for a city with ~55,000 people
There is a lot of poverty and crime in PG County. On paper, income levels may look high but take into account the cost of living here....once you do that people in PG County don't live that well. I live in neighboring Montgomery County, technically one of the wealthiest counties in the U.S....but wherever I travel - Las Vegas, Boise, Salt Lake City, Raleigh, Richmond, even other places in Maryland - the average person lives in a bigger house with a bigger yard, the quality of life is better, etc.
Once you factor in the cost of living the high incomes in PG County, and everywhere else in the DC area, mean nothing. As for PGC, its schools are the second worst in the state after Baltimore City. In addition, the area has a VERY LARGE number of illegal immigrants from Central America and the county has to spend a lot of money supporting these people. Illegals shamelessly abuse our system and do not pay taxes but demand that PG and other school systems fund bilingual education, give remedial instruction, free lunch, etc.
PG County borders some of the worst neighborhoods in DC so there is a great spillover in terms of crime and poverty in those suburbs closest to DC, particularly Southeast DC. The general rule of thumb is that inside the Beltway (the I-495 loop encircling the DC area), communities are older, poorer and less safe. There are very nice and affluent parts of PG County in places like Mitchellville, Bowie, Lake Arbor and Upper Marlboro.
It's also important to remember that when regarding PG County as the wealthiest county with a black majority, this is generally referring to the median income. Cost of living in general is very high in the DC area and therefore incomes are higher here than all but a handful of other metro areas, and the majority of counties with a black majority tend to be either rural in the South, or in cities with lower costs of living meaning that the location of PG County in the ultra-expensive DC area and the correlating income is a large part of it's considered affluence.
PG County has nice parts and it has bad parts. Some really really bad. The general consensus among residents is that things are only getting worse in terms of crime and education and such and there's been a rather marked exodus of middle-class blacks to neighboring Charles County, mirroring the original middle-class exodus from DC to PG County in the 60s and 70s.
I actually agree with this....read my own post. Cost of living is a MAJOR factor. I'm pretty sure there are black counties elsewhere where people live better. Income stats are misleading. Try to visit the place and see for yourself how the way of life is. Besides with so much illegal immigration I'm not sure how long PG County will keep its black majority.
Two things about this comment: moving the poor around has never proved to be a viable solution. PGC residents have lamented this point as it relates to DC pushing its poor residents into PGC. Also the east-west income divide you speak of is particularly disturbing in that it further illustrates the new chauvinist ideal that is taking hold of our communities and that’s classism…the new and improved racism if you will. This thread is a discussion about the “affluence” in PGC. If your assertion is shared by the affluent blacks of the county then it’s quite ironic that they now want to get rid of the black poor because they are creating a negative image of PGC and driving away economic development and prosperity that others desire; the pot calling the kettle black…literally!
C.
First off, that was an excellent and humbling post by Maat.
...
Secondly, I don't give a damn what black people think about poor people - for two reasons:
1) I don't believe that black people share one brain, like everyone else seems to think. I'm pretty sure they can each think for themselves, independently.
2) I'm white.
Thirdly, you're missing the forest, for the trees. Let's look at the 1960's DC suburbs: Over a very short amount of time, you have a massive exodus of people from the central city into the burbs. What one might expect is an equal distribution of the people among the BIG 3 counties. It didn't happen like that. For reasons that are only guesses to me, PG accommodated all the poor by building thousands of shoddy apartments, while other jurisdictions did not. That is the only reason the DC area looks the way it does. All those apartments should never have been built in the first place. That is the point that I am trying to make. It isn't poverty that correlates to crime, it's high-concentrations of poverty. Which is why I stated that mixed income is the holy grail of planning. The sheer number of apartments was a colossal planning mistake that has unnecessarily burdened the tax payer's of the county for 40 years. The answer is simple. I'm glad to see Jack Johnson letting it happen. It's the first damn thing he hasn't F'd up so far.
I really do not like the interjection of race into any discussion in 2007. I cannot wait for the older generation of black politicians to whither away; the younger ones don't have the chip on their shoulder that the older ones have (yes, i feel that the chip might be justified, but politicians aren't allowed to hold grudges. sorry). I grew up as poor as the poorest man in PG. I was fortunate enough, however, to have smart parents who instilled into me a solid work ethic and a love of learning. The State (and County) did not help me one iota and no help was asked by me. Within one generation I can have a life my parents never did, largely because I moved to the DC area and got an in-demand degree at a great engineering school (UMD) and work in a profession that pays well. Living in PG has also contributed to my accumulation of wealth, because I was able to find here an amazing neighborhood with a great school for cheaper than most others, all because it has a PG address. How ludicrous that sounds even as I read it back to myself??? What I'm getting at is that the DC area is the single easiest area in which to "make it" in my opinion. If you can't make it here, you'll never make it anywhere.
A great start and I hope these partnerships address some of the economic and social issues that affect crime.
Cheasare, If you knew some of the history between PGPD and county residents, you would understand just how significant these partnerships are. Trust is building.
Here's the most comprehensive paper I've read about the history of development in PGC. It was written by a UMCP grad student.
There is a lot of poverty and crime in PG County. On paper, income levels may look high but take into account the cost of living here....once you do that people in PG County don't live that well. I live in neighboring Montgomery County, technically one of the wealthiest counties in the U.S....but wherever I travel - Las Vegas, Boise, Salt Lake City, Raleigh, Richmond, even other places in Maryland - the average person lives in a bigger house with a bigger yard, the quality of life is better, etc.
Once you factor in the cost of living the high incomes in PG County, and everywhere else in the DC area, mean nothing. As for PGC, its schools are the second worst in the state after Baltimore City. In addition, the area has a VERY LARGE number of illegal immigrants from Central America and the county has to spend a lot of money supporting these people. Illegals shamelessly abuse our system and do not pay taxes but demand that PG and other school systems fund bilingual education, give remedial instruction, free lunch, etc.
LMAO...does anyone pay attention to this man's posts? IMO, they are hilarious and an example of how education is a virtrue.
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Appreciate the discussion laurelengineer
